AVI DM10 active speakers

[Liya]

I believe it's also been suggested that you use ONE lo0udspeaker for these in-room measurements, not both together (I think I have that right).

Got to say a 6" driver in a 7.5l box is a bit extreme without some form of eq, but maybe not...

Last week I have measured semi-anechoic response of a single DM12. This week I have checked in room response of both; 5 different spots around listening position. These showed me that in both scenarios DM12s have hump in the mids. Something Ash always denied, but it's there.
Whether this is likable or not, it's a personal choice. Many Avi fans seem to like it.
I could go down to 30, maybe even 20Hz with subs and dsp but I also have neighbours and tbf, in our 16sqm living room the response from 6inch driver in 11,5l box is ok.

 

[Liya]

The RME ADI-2 DAC FS arrived today.
These are fresh measurements of Avi DM12 from listening position after the RME EQ was applied.
Good thing about the RME is that I can apply EQ and check how the applied settings measure.

 

[Horsje]

View attachment 194583

The RME ADI-2 DAC FS arrived today.
These are fresh measurements of Avi DM12 from listening position after the RME EQ was applied.
Good thing about the RME is that I can apply EQ and check how the applied settings measure.

And how does it sound?

 

[Liya]

And how does it sound?

Since I have the RME device I've experimented little more with REW and RME. I measured DM12s in semi-anechoic set up again, and set the eq so it measure flat. It's couple of days I am listening with the new settings and I must say the DM12s are easier on the ear. My old time favourite headphones are HD650. They always sounds right to me. I think DM12s are like that now (less forward); or at least way closer than before.

 

[Horsje]

With the mid hump gone, it’s no surprise it sounds more natural, less forward. You just can’t go back to listening without eq, every AVI speaker owner should try it. The HD650 is also my reference by the way…

 

[Rednaxela]

Not ADM10s but this might still be of interest to some.

Purple is a L/R average of the quasi-anechoic on-axis response of a pair of ADM9.1 speakers. Blue is an in-room MMM measurement of L+R together.

Off-axis responses, all measurements 10 degrees apart. For both speakers the port side is located on the baffle at the outside of the listening triangle.

I'm currently studying these plots to understand whether forcing the 600-3000Hz mid range bump all the way down to fit a smooth target curve is the best thing to do to these speakers.

 

[DSJR]

Ash had the baffle correction taken out in the early Positron floor standing model days of the late 90's and it seems he never got Mart the designer to return to using it. Remember, these miniatures were often pictured on a desktop with an Apple screen in between, or tight to the wall behind them to help aid the bass level. I don't believe they were ever really intended for free space use.

I wonder if anyone can try the DM30's, with bass and treble (Baxendal) controls and a slightly larger box. Not sure how many were made and the Chinese market was where they were aimed I gather.

 

[Rednaxela]

Ash had the baffle correction taken out in the early Positron floor standing model days of the late 90's and it seems he never got Mart the designer to return to using it.

Most interesting, hadn’t thought about absent BSC. Will look into that. It could put the midrange bump in slightly different light.

Remember, these miniatures were often pictured on a desktop with an Apple screen in between, or tight to the wall behind them to help aid the bass level.

Right I see, that’s why. Thanks.

I don't believe they were ever really intended for free space use.

For the record I use mine at 10cm from the wall. So the MMM curve in the first picture is not in free space. The other curve in the same plot of course is.

 

[DSJR]

Most interesting, hadn’t thought about absent BSC. Will look into that. It could put the midrange bump in slightly different light.


Right I see, that’s why. Thanks.


For the record I use mine at 10cm from the wall. So the MMM curve in the first picture is not in free space. The other curve in the same plot of course is.

To be honest, it may not be an issue. AVI did reduce the magnet slightly I believe in the 10 and late 9? models (maybe 12 too?) to a custom SB driver and this would have dropped the upper response rise a touch and maybe given the bass just a little more perceived warmth perhaps (depends how much was changed in these later drivers as regards mechanical damping by the magnet system).

Thing is, if a little bit of eq fixes it, then why the heck not

 

[Liya]

Not sure if I have mentioned this here before but I compared the ATC SCM11 + SIA2 integrated with DM12 and they both sound very similar. For me, in 2018, DM12 were the winner as they were cheaper than 11s + amp and had a built in dac and I preffered Avi sound slightly more than 11s. But recently, after hearing some Genelecs, I thought, man these sound just right. It's not only 'girl with a guitar' that sound good but so much different music sound good too. So I sold Avi.
Ash, his questionable audio experise (in my view all he was doing was to amplify convenient aspect of his speakers and silently avoid so many other aspects) and his products are out of my house once and for all. The Avi forum is full of his 'our speakers are the best', 'state of the art', 'the best you can make 2 way' and trashing everyone else, apart of course from Panasonic and Yamaha because his mate at DanielsTV was selling these brands. I am happy to be free of this bs and Avi circle of support. They obviously won't ever need any support anymore as they are out of business, but I am happy nonetheless.

 

[Liya]

To be honest, it may not be an issue. AVI did reduce the magnet slightly I believe in the 10 and late 9? models (maybe 12 too?) to a custom SB driver and this would have dropped the upper response rise a touch and maybe given the bass just a little more perceived warmth perhaps (depends how much was changed in these later drivers as regards mechanical damping by the magnet system).

Thing is, if a little bit of eq fixes it, then why the heck not

Mystic Avi custom driver... It always made my laugh when Ash was saying that Sinar Baja changed (after Avi suggestions) midbass cone pulp formula for them‍

 

[DSJR]

Mystic Avi custom driver... It always made my laugh when Ash was saying that Sinar Baja changed (after Avi suggestions) midbass cone pulp formula for them‍

If you order enough drivers (batches of 500 so 250 pairs?), I dare say SB could do some alterations. Not sure if that could go to the paper cone mix though.

All it means to me is that if a driver is damaged or overdriven (the amps on ADM9's used to supply-sag to help prevent major damage), you may get an SB replacement but it may not be the same as the original and the upper mid 'bump' may end up even worse.

 

[Rednaxela]

My ADM9.1 speakers are from November 2009.

I bought them because of their functional all-in-one package, AVI's refreshingly down-to-earth approach to audio, the technical appeal of active speaker design, their beautiful classic looks, the remarkable clarity of their sound signature, their ability to be driven hard (whatever that meant to me at the time), and their incredible VFM.

My speakers are still going strong, and have kept me off endless upgraditis for almost 13 years now.

That said I have always felt their sound was missing a little bit of body, warmth if you will. Never made a secret of this by the way. Their bass was sold as being fast and accurate, and warmth as something that was either a sign of suboptimal performance or something that could be added with a simple low shelf filter or one or two GEQ sliders. Which, to be honest, does make sense in itself.

Around the time that the 9 series were in one of their final iterations, a little accident with the volume control blew up one of my midbass drivers. Contacted AVI and was offered a new pair of drivers at very reasonable cost. Their then latest version. Ashley had also added two sheets of the damping material they had switched to over time. Plus instructions for their so called T-mod. One speaker surgery evening later they were both up and running again. Their sound had changed, in my opinion for the better, especially in the mid to upper bass region. Can't say I noticed a lot about this T-mod but I didn't mind it either.

A couple of years ago the remote had given up the ghost. Contacted AVI, got sent a replacement one free of charge.

All in all I have been a very, very happy AVI customer.

Times have changed and so have I. I now own a measurement microphone and more or less know how to use it. This enables me to better understand with hindsight what I have been enjoying and also where there may be opportunities for optimizing what I hear. With all the advanced EQ options available it's easier than ever to adjust them to the room they're in, and to chase a certain tonality in an informed way. At the moment I'm having a blast with this, and I'm more than once floored by the results I get.

At the time these speakers were pretty ground breaking in more than one way. Would they qualify for a 2022 ASR approval stamp? Probably not. Does this matter much? To me not really. YMMV.


(Sorry for the lengthy post.)

 

[Liya]

What I discovered in my DM12 was lack of acoustic foam behind the midbass driver. This foam was present in the DM10 model. Have they forgot to put it in 12s. I guess at Avi simply everything passed their lousy QC. Ash was always stressing about top finish of the cabinets 'best you can make them'?... but with all three Avi speakers I had something was off with the veneer (including discolouration of oak finish) or palcement of the driver was misaligned or scratched straight from the factory.
For Ash, baffle-step doesn't exist. Standing waves inside box? It probably does't exist either.
What's important it's 8th order filter and 'custom midbass'.
Btw, he also said that SB improved midbass rubber surround after Avi suggestions.
Yeah, I'm sure they did

 

[Pauper]

What I discovered in my DM12 was lack of acoustic foam behind the midbass driver. This foam was present in the DM10 model. Have they forgot to put it in 12s. I guess at Avi simply everything passed their lousy QC. Ash was always stressing about top finish of the cabinets 'best you can make them'?... but with all three Avi speakers I had something was off with the veneer (including discolouration of oak finish) or palcement of the driver was misaligned or scratched straight from the factory.
For Ash, baffle-step doesn't exist. Standing waves inside box? It probably does't exist either.
What's important it's 8th order filter and 'custom midbass'.
Btw, he also said that SB improved midbass rubber surround after Avi suggestions.
Yeah, I'm sure they did

It’s interesting that you should mention driver misalignment as one of my tweeters on my DM5’s was so. I was a bit miffed seeing as Ash was such a stickler for the quality of the finish.

 

[Rednaxela]

Out of interest what is your take on the broad dip around 250Hz in the 9 series? It’s apparent in my own measurements but it’s also clearly there in the one by @Horsje here.

Do you still see it as part of the mid range bump? Or is it a separate phenomenon? We know there is no BSC - does leaving this out generally lead to such a strong FR drop towards the lower frequencies?

With my 10-band PEQ and my in-room response I seem to get the best results by dialing down the room modes and just adding a -3dB 12dB/oct high shelf at 500Hz.

Been trying for weeks to reach a smoother response on paper but whatever I do the end result always sounds muffled and over-corrected. Not neutral or natural at all, especially with voices.

 

[Citizen]

Wow, I have just in the last week acquired two airs of AVI ADM 9.1t's and they have completely blown me away, at first I did not have a remote control for either pair but have found that an old Cambridge Audio a540 azure remote works for volume and source switching, took a little while to get them up and running but both pairs seem to be working flawlessly, I put one pair next to my Adam A7X to do a dirct comparison and well there just isn't any comparison the AVI's blow the(what i thought was a half decent monitor) Adams away, they seem to have all the qualities of a good set of studio monitors but still sound like hifi speakers, the Adams sound crunchy, brash and two dimensional alongside the AVI's.

I think like most folks here I have a craving to find out the specs of the drivers/amps/dacs etc but there is so little about, almost all reviews seem to be a rehash of the AVI marketing blurb.

I have them set up with a pair of Rel HT1205's that are set in a stack in the corner of the room and seem to integrate really well, but have noticed the AVI's can be really aggressive with vocals, but I am still listening to more music in a day at the mo than i would usually listen to in a week because I want to hear what these little monitors are going to sound like.

 

[AM88]

Wow, I have just in the last week acquired two airs of AVI ADM 9.1t's and they have completely blown me away, at first I did not have a remote control for either pair but have found that an old Cambridge Audio a540 azure remote works for volume and source switching, took a little while to get them up and running but both pairs seem to be working flawlessly, I put one pair next to my Adam A7X to do a dirct comparison and well there just isn't any comparison the AVI's blow the(what i thought was a half decent monitor) Adams away, they seem to have all the qualities of a good set of studio monitors but still sound like hifi speakers, the Adams sound crunchy, brash and two dimensional alongside the AVI's.

I think like most folks here I have a craving to find out the specs of the drivers/amps/dacs etc but there is so little about, almost all reviews seem to be a rehash of the AVI marketing blurb.

I have them set up with a pair of Rel HT1205's that are set in a stack in the corner of the room and seem to integrate really well, but have noticed the AVI's can be really aggressive with vocals, but I am still listening to more music in a day at the mo than i would usually listen to in a week because I want to hear what these little monitors are going to sound like.

View attachment 281076

They are a great pair of speakers. The 9.1s have been my day to day use speakers since they came out. I would hope they measure great but have a feeling they won’t. I’ve replaced both dust caps and the tweeters have some mould, but I’ve never felt the need to replace them entirely. I also have the sub which is essential for anything approaching full range playback. Hope you enjoy them for the years to come.

 

[Moonhead]

Wow, I have just in the last week acquired two airs of AVI ADM 9.1t's and they have completely blown me away, at first I did not have a remote control for either pair but have found that an old Cambridge Audio a540 azure remote works for volume and source switching, took a little while to get them up and running but both pairs seem to be working flawlessly, I put one pair next to my Adam A7X to do a dirct comparison and well there just isn't any comparison the AVI's blow the(what i thought was a half decent monitor) Adams away, they seem to have all the qualities of a good set of studio monitors but still sound like hifi speakers, the Adams sound crunchy, brash and two dimensional alongside the AVI's.

I think like most folks here I have a craving to find out the specs of the drivers/amps/dacs etc but there is so little about, almost all reviews seem to be a rehash of the AVI marketing blurb.

I have them set up with a pair of Rel HT1205's that are set in a stack in the corner of the room and seem to integrate really well, but have noticed the AVI's can be really aggressive with vocals, but I am still listening to more music in a day at the mo than i would usually listen to in a week because I want to hear what these little monitors are going to sound like.

View attachment 281076

Congrats Mate.
9.1ts is there 3rd revision of the speaker then 9RS, ADM40, DM10 and the final speaker DM12.
I have DM12 and my brother now has my ADM40.

the only studio momitors I prefer to Avi is Neumann.

 

[Liya]

AVI's can be really aggressive with vocals

and it is because of the elevated mids around 1kHz (between 5 to 8db).
You will simply learn to accept it (I couldn't) or reach soon for an EQ.