Auva Footers

[Sokel]

Didn't read the whole thing here, but if these thingies changed the height of the speakers, the whole direct sound/reflection ratio has changed, specially at the two (usually out of control unless you treat) usual suspects, floor and ceiling.
That can have a big effect as ceiling is even more important than sides sometimes.

Now, combine that with some anticipation, some pride for your own work and the usual up treatment by the dealer (it should be, it's part of the price in such "upgrades" ,I know I would want it) and you're there.

You sure heard the "difference".
But unless a "difference" is targeted and planned as such and such, gets chaotic, isn't it?

 

[Mart68]

It's easy to ask for measurement but in reality wouldn't it actually be hard to take meaningful measurements.
Presumably you'd have to somehow account for the fact that the speaker would be at a different height. Also, how would you ensure that the speakers were placed back in exactly the same spot after you'd moved them to attach the footers?

Yes the speaker needs to be the same height. (in my demo we measured the difference, it was 5mm).

Don't forget we are talking about a difference big enough for many to say 'Shut up and take my money'. A tiny difference in height isn't going to generate a difference of that magnitude.

You can mark the speaker position with tape.

In any normal world you would think the manufacturer would take such measurements in the course of developing the product, and publish them in their literature. But this is the world of hi-fi, where people wear hats on their feet and hamburgers eat people.

 

[Purité Audio]

A loudspeaker would have to be heroically poorly designed to be influenced by its support.
Keith

 

[staticV3]

A loudspeaker would have to be heroically poorly designed to be influenced by its support.
Keith

...as poorly designed as the Salon2? (Link)

 

[5-pot-fan]

Hi,
I'm about to receive some new speakers, which just might need to sit a bit higher than they would 'bare'.
Would you be willing to take some 'with' and 'without' measurements and post them here to save me some expense? Use a microphone and capture the info using REW - not very hard or time-consuming.
My UMIK-1 is currently in storage prior to shipping to NZ, otherwise I would do the job myself.

 

[voodooless]

Once installed I did a slight speaker positioning adjustment, and I started listening.

So, how do you know it’s not the slight positioning difference?

 

[stvnharr]

Ah, far better responses now, quite useful.
Particular thanks to Mart68, whose post I did use as a reference, and to Keith who knows Theo.

I made my post yesterday because when I was searching for information on the Auva's there just wasn't anything beyond the website, Mart68's post and the other noted post that mentioned the website information "mumbo-jumbo".
Thus, I trusted my Danish friend's advice on these, as there was just so little information to go on at the time.
And I am fine with that. I am pleased with the result. And as has been noted, everyone who has tried these particular footers has noted a positive improvement, even if varied, of some sort.

Now, there is my post here, and the responses. So hopefully others searching for information, as I recently did, can at least have a little more useful information than I had.

 

[Purité Audio]

Sorbathane open cell rubber, better and cheaper, but in the measurements that a laboratory isolation equipment manufacturer made here a few years back with their four plane accelerometer they concluded that ( with decently designed loudspeakers) it just wasn’t an issue.
Keith

 

[Mart68]

Sorbathane open cell rubber, better and cheaper, but in the measurements that a laboratory isolation equipment manufacturer made here a few years back with their four plane accelerometer they concluded that ( with decently designed loudspeakers) it just wasn’t an issue.
Keith

You don't think there are just too many variables to conclude that from one experiment?

The construction of the floor the speakers sit on for example? Will there be no difference from concrete to wooden suspended? At least for some designs of speaker?

Maybe not but where is the research? You'd think companies making speaker isolation products would have done this and could show their workings.

 

[DanielT]

A search for rubber spacers or thick rubber washers gives a lot, at good prices, to choose from. What I see is almost all in black, but you can always paint them, or spray them in another color if you feel like it. Advantage, a lot to choose from in terms of shape and height/thickness:

 

[Purité Audio]

You don't think there are just too many variables to conclude that from one experiment?

The construction of the floor the speakers sit on for example? Will there be no difference from concrete to wooden suspended? At least for some designs of speaker?

Maybe not but where is the research? You'd think companies making speaker isolation products would have done this and could show their workings.

Do your speakers transmit enough structurally borne vibration to create an audible resonance in the floor, also what about airborne transmission what are you going to do about that.
The speaker designer has to ensure that the speaker does not store energy which might lead to audible resonance.
If your speaker is a naked driver placed on the floor…
Keith

 

[Mart68]

Do your speakers transmit enough structurally borne vibration to create an audible resonance in the floor, also what about airborne transmission what are you going to do about that.

I think it is possible that a speaker could vibrate a sufficiently flimsy floor to the extent where it acted like a sounding board, if the speaker was sat directly on it and was sufficiently powerful at low frequency. Maybe that's not the case, I don't know.

Airborne - obviously there's nothing you can do except make sure everything that could rattle or vibrate is damped or secured.

 

[egellings]

If he thinks that the tweak sounds better, then to him, and him alone, it will, regardless of the footers' effects, if any. Of course, a blind test at matched volume levels will explode that belief, although with footers, that would be difficult to do. Footers do have utility in my system because the speakers are 5 foot high 85 pound towers and only 9 inches wide, and they sit on a carpet. They are very tipsy sitting on the carpet, so I used spikes (a type of footer) on the speakers' bottoms to pierce through the carpet and make contact the concrete floor underneath. The speakers are much more solidly situated now, and I not worried about them getting tipped over. I could not tell any difference in sound quality, though.

 

[stvnharr]

So, how do you know it’s not the slight positioning difference?

I set my speakers up with the Sumiko-Master set procedure. I know this procedure quite well and have been doing it for years. I also have visited the Soundings store in Denver numerous times and have heard Rod Tomson's sets and know the sound. I used to live in the US.
When I attached the footers I decided to do the procedure again. In reality I moved the speakers a couple of millimeters to get a new perfect match. In order to do this, I did not have the spikes attached. It is always a challenge to tip the speaker so as to be able to attach the spikes and get the speaker exactly in the perfect spot.
Perhaps I didn't really need to mention this in my original post.
And Yes, I did originally consider that change in sound to possibly just being just from getting a better matched setting with the speakers. However, as I listened and listened it just seemed to be different from when I had gotten perfect matched settings with the speakers.
Nonetheless, I now listen to music with the footers attached to the speakers and have the speakers placed perfectly in the room. It is all One.
Make of that what you will.

 

[stvnharr]

If he thinks that the tweak sounds better, then to him, and him alone, it will, regardless of the footers' effects, if any. Of course, a blind test at matched volume levels will explode that belief, although with footers, that would be difficult to do. Footers do have utility in my system because the speakers are 5 foot high 85 pound towers and only 9 inches wide, and they sit on a carpet. They are very tipsy sitting on the carpet, so I used spikes (a type of footer) on the speakers' bottoms to pierce through the carpet and make contact the concrete floor underneath. The speakers are much more solidly situated now, and I not worried about them getting tipped over. I could not tell any difference in sound quality, though.

So, finally the Blind Test Post.
What do you suggest?
I have one pair of speakers. I have one pair of footers. I have one pair of the old long spikes.
Yes, I could have one speaker on the footers and one on the old spikes. I could listen to a 1958 mono recording. Where do I put the speakers? Speaker-Room interface is everything with sound, even with mono. How does one switch between channels?
As you mention, challenging. And for all practical purposes, not worthwhile for anything meaningful. Sorry.

 

[stvnharr]

And lastly.......
I listen to music several hours a day, each day. I am retired. I have the available time to listen to music for 4-5 hours each day, most days. I sit and listen to just the music as if I am at a concert. I do not do background music with my music system, EVER. I also attend actual concerts regularly. I attend several concerts a year at the Melbourne Symphony. I attend music festivals. Earlier this month, I spent 4 days at the Port Fairy Folk Festival, which my wife and I have attended every year, for many, many years. I listened to music sets for 10 hours on each of the main days. I listen to music a lot! It is what I do.
I am well attuned to the sound of my music system. I can easily discern small changes. My music system now sounds more like real live acoustic concert music. That is why I mentioned that the change is significant. It is not really a big change from before, but a significant one to me.

When I was searching for information on these footers, after the suggestion was put to me, I was mostly searching for people who had tried them and not liked them. I was not really interested in the positive posts on the website. Every tweak product there is, has that same kind of post. I just didn't find much information at all. And the few random posts I found here and there, were much like Mart68's. Everyone reported that something had changed, even if they couldn't really put their finger on it. Paying a lot of money for that, is another thing. My cost for the Auva 50's was 465 USD shipped to my house in Australia.

 

[kemmler3D]

You'd think companies making speaker isolation products would have done this and could show their workings.

Why bother doing that, when they can do zero work and still get wide acclaim from their users?

everyone who has tried these particular footers has noted a positive improvement, even if varied, of some sort.

With the edit, this applies to pretty much every piece of audiophile gear on the market, including those for which it is physically impossible to produce any improvement in the sound. This doesn't mean they didn't help your system, but it's not evidence of anything.

 

[CedarX]

Somewhat related—same StackAudio Company—see the review of the “Smooth LAN” regenerator at: https://the-ear.net/review-hardware/stack-audio-smooth-lan-regenerator/

OMG…

 

[kemmler3D]

Somewhat related—same StackAudio Company—see the review of the “Smooth LAN” regenerator a:t https://the-ear.net/review-hardware/stack-audio-smooth-lan-regenerator/

OMG…

" it is primarily intended to remove noise from the network that feeds a streamer, noise that typically produces the hard, grainy sound that we associate with bad digital. "

As if they were sending raw IIS over the internet from Spotify...

Really, I can forgive people for buying into this stuff. After all, for many people "digital audio" is probably just one big nebulous concept, and it is probably intuitive that any given audio component could degrade the sound somehow. The more expensive it is, the less it probably degrades the audio.

I can't really forgive the people that sell this stuff. If you know enough to build a custom ethernet switch, you know very well that it cannot actually improve the sound in any way. Buffers, CRC, you know. The stuff that makes the internet actually function.

The reviewers are maybe even more guilty. They've taken on a role and responsibility to inform people about this stuff and simply repeat idiotic lies as if they were doing the audience a favor. They should at least take the time to understand, at a slightly-better-than-totally-uninformed level, how these products (don't) work.

A great example of pure snake oil.

 

[DVDdoug]

I have one pair of speakers. I have one pair of footers. I have one pair of the old long spikes.
Yes, I could have one speaker on the footers and one on the old spikes. I could listen to a 1958 mono recording. Where do I put the speakers? Speaker-Room interface is everything with sound, even with mono. How does one switch between channels?
As you mention, challenging. And for all practical purposes, not worthwhile for anything meaningful. Sorry.

It's true that blind listening tests would not be easy. You'd have to have some help and you'd have to visually block the bottom of the speakers. And it would take quite a bit of time & effort to make the changes several times to get statistically valid results. But the fact that it's difficult does NOT make your sighted test valid.

You're the one making the claims and without better evidence you're going to get some questioning or push-back here on Audio Science Review. Most "audiophile" websites & forums would not question your claims or perceptions.

Ethan Winer did some isolator measurements and although he got some slight changes he attributed it to not being able to get the speaker in the exact same location when he changed the setup.