Audiophonics DA-S250NC and DAW-S250NC : new integrated amps with DAC (streamer) and Ncore !

[ShiftInsert]

@ShiftInsert
Regarding the video you posted on YT , could you leave the camera on for about 40 seconds after you switched off behind ?
I tried to reproduce your findings,
and as I mentioned before, the unit needs some moments to cut off, and in this lead time you can put it off/on manually, but it ends the on state after the amount of time it needs for powering off, and you can't switch it on, neither by power button (front) nor remote.

I may assume my findings are the way it should work ... standard usage wouldn't put the device on during lead time for powering off.

May I suggest that in case your unit shows a defect, you may be better off discussing with @Audiophonics (perhaps pm ?) instead mocking them on social media ?

Yep, sure, I have published another video of me waiting for it for about 90 seconds, then unplugging the cable and waiting for another minute before it truly turned off.

I am not quite sure what you call mocking, I've been describing the issues as they were in hope to get some helpful advices, as some other users before me did.
I might choose a wrong word somewhere because English is not my native language, but I have no intentions of mocking anything.

 

[ShiftInsert]

Hello,
Yesterday we made some close listining tests on several devices and we think we know what you hear on your model.
It may come from your PSU which is idling.
Please contact our after sales service (On our website, My account page)and we will fix it for you.

Thanks for your response, I created 2 requests, 1 for high-piched sounds, and 1 for seemingly not working power button.

 

[Sangro]

I’ve had my unit for a couple of days now. I am also pleased with performance and looks.
Regarding @delfuego ’s earlier post about low output volume. I’m quite happy with the output when streaming via bluetooth, driving i pair of 4 ohms 86db standmounts.

I have no issues with noise from the unit when idle.

Great to see that @Audiophonics is active and responding, makes me feel safe with my purchase.

 

[DTTOM37]

Yep, sure, I have published another video of me waiting for it for about 90 seconds, then unplugging the cable and waiting for another minute before it truly turned off.

I am not quite sure what you call mocking, I've been describing the issues as they were in hope to get some helpful advices, as some other users before me did.
I might choose a wrong word somewhere because English is not my native language, but I have no intentions of mocking anything.

Salut,
I would guess English is second language only of half of the forum's inhabitants. For me, too. No worry about that.
My response was based on these two points:
1.) The first video was imho not long enough to provide the needed information, as the unit takes some time to shut down.
And yes, after having seen the longer video the first would prove correctly. I may assume that both problems are related somwhow ...
2.) I am not used to provide Youtube videos of devices that may be defective before I've contacted and discussed the issue with the support of the manufacturer. For me it is like a route of last resort after the communiction has broken down. I am even not sure I would do that if my communication about the defective device would be unsuccesful. Perhaps rather share experience in a forum or a audio themed & populated FB group. Thus, I would then understand that move perhaps a bit better, because I would be angry & unsatisfied with that situation as well.
As so often in life, your milage may vary (ymmv) ...
Bon weekend, DT

 

[ShiftInsert]

Salut,
I would guess English is second language only of half of the forum's inhabitants. For me, too. No worry about that.
My response was based on these two points:
1.) The first video was imho not long enough to provide the needed information, as the unit takes some time to shut down.
And yes, after having seen the longer video the first would prove correctly. I may assume that both problems are related somwhow ...
2.) I am not used to provide Youtube videos of devices that may be defective before I've contacted and discussed the issue with the support of the manufacturer. For me it is like a route of last resort after the communiction has broken down. I am even not sure I would do that if my communication about the defective device would be unsuccesful. Perhaps rather share experience in a forum or a audio themed & populated FB group. Thus, I would then understand that move perhaps a bit better, because I would be angry & unsatisfied with that situation as well.
As so often in life, your milage may vary (ymmv) ...
Bon weekend, DT

I'm still failing to understand how any of that can be called mocking as "making fun of someone or something in a cruel way".
A picture is worth a thousand words, moreso the video showing the issue clearly, and youtube is as good a video hosting as any.
What others feel about that is actually irrelevant.
I have no understanding that the device is defective until I actually have opinions of other people who are much more experienced than me, hence my posts in this forum.
Have a nice one too.

 

[DTTOM37]

I'm still failing to understand how any of that can be called mocking as "making fun of someone or something in a cruel way".
A picture is worth a thousand words, moreso the video showing the issue clearly, and youtube is as good a video hosting as any.
What others feel about that is actually irrelevant.
I have no understanding that the device is defective until I actually have opinions of other people who are much more experienced than me, hence my posts in this forum.

@ShiftInsert
perhaps it is the different school of thought that allows us to understand things differently ?
I assumed expressing my understanding of your video rather as a fun way of mocking than in the negative way of trolling had better chances to find constructive echo (aka understanding).
You may personally find you video Einstein-esque? And you are happy about your creative potential? All well ... Opions beg to differ ...
If I am not mistaken you didn't dare to explain why you posted that video on youtube?
Which leave irrelavant opinions some space to form ...
As I pointed out, I wouldn't have done it your way, independing of my personal understanding of the fact that a unit is defective or not.
Perhaps I have a different understanding about the impact of youtube and netiquette than you, who knows?
I do as well - in regard of posting "things" in social media - have another perception of irrelevance - at least I can read that from your last post.
Cheers (edit: spelling/wording)

 

[delfuego]

I’ve had my unit for a couple of days now. I am also pleased with performance and looks.

Glad you are happy!

 

[Redwine]

Anyone knows, if it works with Roon?

 

[DTTOM37]

Salut @delfuego,
excellent & reasonable review with almost all important points I have on my own plate about the DAW-S250NC. Well done!!!
I found the amp can go quite loud but I noticed distortion in the area higher than -13 dB on the screen.Tested with Q-Acoustics 3030i, I prefered the range between -30 and -15 db as sonically most gratifying.
I like a lot the display, though I am not happy to lack control over timing and brightness.
With all point correctly criticised - in my view- the important point to excuse missing all the things we loved to have, is the absolutely fair price of the unit for people who don't want to bother with separates and get a decent & well built but basic AIO performance for at an interesting price point.
As you have remarked, you can enhance your experience with the DA-S250NC model and a streamer/digital transport of your choice, perhaps one that allows you to make a good/better use of the USB port ?
I am going to test the unit with a RPI4 / PiCorePlayer over USB next week, in order to test out the DAC real life performance with HiRes PCM, DXD and DSD.
Cheers, Tom

I need to correct myself:
I obviously had a problem with the WiFi quality, because the amp got a very low level signal, which let me believe the sweet spot would be about -30 to -15dB.
In fact, I tested today the internal WIIM platform, a WIIM mini on Toslink and USB from a Pi4 with Volumio, with both a testone and a music file, the results are lower than 1 dB different, measured by an Android app.
Thus I stand corrected: the sweet spot seems to be rather between -40 and -20dB, at listening position (3m distance) I have measured 83db from a volume of -25dB.
Yesterday, still evaluating what to do I had quickly hand measured nearly 10 dB difference, and that's actually what I heard in the first place. I had noticed that the WiFi signal was labelled "weak".
However, I did a reset through the WiFi button at the back side and today the signal was labelled "very good", and I noticed it being connected via 2.4 Ghz instead of 5 Ghz network.
The distance to the router is only about 5 meters, but with two walls to pass, looks like the 2.4 Ghz is a preference in that condition.

Interesting point to know, I have had the unit unpowered/disconnected a couple of times but it always was re-connected back to 5Ghz network automatically when back in place and powered on. A change of networks obvioulsy need to be manipulated by the button behind or through the WIIM app. I didn't do that on purpose but I would suggest strongly, if problems with the signal strength/quality occur, change the frequency in the WIIM app and restart. (edit) This way you can chose the network, pressing the button alone doesn't give any indication. (fin edit)
Cheers, DT

 

[DTTOM37]

Anyone knows, if it works with Roon?

Imho only, when you use a Roon-endpoint in front of the DAC (USB/COAX/TOSLINK). Thus, not over wifi ...

 

[delfuego]

However, I did a reset through the WiFi button at the back side and today the signal was labelled "very good", and I noticed it being connected via 2.4 Ghz instead of 5 Ghz network.
The distance to the router is only about 5 meters, but with two walls to pass, looks like the 2.4 Ghz is a preference in that condition.

Interesting point to know, I have had the unit unpowered/disconnected a couple of times but it always was re-connected back to 5Ghz network automatically when back in place and powered on. A change of networks obvioulsy need to be manipulated by the button behind or through the WIIM app. I didn't do that on purpose but I would suggest strongly, if problems with the signal strength/quality occur, change the frequency in the WIIM app and restart. (edit) This way you can chose the network, pressing the button alone doesn't give any indication. (fin edit)
Cheers, DT

The router/wireless access point (WAP) will always manage the connection to the device. Devices will advertise their abilities, but the WAP will choose what it thinks is best. 2.4ghz is better than 5ghz for distance and 5ghz is better for speed/bandwidth. Depending on you hardware you can force the settings you prefer. 2.4ghz is more than enough bandwidth for even the highest audio settings, the only drawback is congestion from all the other devices running/broadcasting radio at 2.4ghz. I would recommend keeping these devices (and most IoT devices) on 2.4ghz unless issues arise.

Whenever possible, I would also recommend segmenting this device (and all IoT devices) on a separate SSID/VLAN/Subnet/Network/Etc if possible. Since these device are not field serviceable, but essentially internet connected computers, they are especially susceptible to security risks and compromise. Any unpatched IoT device can potentially compromise any network. Keep your sensitive/work devices separate from everything else. Backup your stuff too. These companies need to be aware of what they are building and provide security, updates and patches as needed and in a timely manner. We are long past the days of connect it and forget it.

 

[DTTOM37]

The router/wireless access point (WAP) will always manage the connection to the device. Devices will advertise their abilities, but the WAP will choose what it thinks is best. 2.4ghz is better than 5ghz for distance and 5ghz is better for speed/bandwidth. Depending on you hardware you can force the settings you prefer. 2.4ghz is more than enough bandwidth for even the highest audio settings, the only drawback is congestion from all the other devices running/broadcasting radio at 2.4ghz. I would recommend keeping these devices (and most IoT devices) on 2.4ghz unless issues arise.

Whenever possible, I would also recommend segmenting this device (and all IoT devices) on a separate SSID/VLAN/Subnet/Network/Etc if possible. Since these device are not field serviceable, but essentially internet connected computers, they are especially susceptible to security risks and compromise. Any unpatched IoT device can potentially compromise any network. Keep your sensitive/work devices separate from everything else. Backup your stuff too. These companies need to be aware of what they are building and provide security, updates and patches as needed and in a timely manner. We are long past the days of connect it and forget it.

Thank you for your well explained information! I like to add, that you can disable the 5G Network access through the WIIM app,

 

[Audiophonics]

Anyone knows, if it works with Roon?

Linkplay module accept Airplay, so :
Roon -> Airplay -> Wifi Input

 

[tomaxsas]

Received this beast. so far so good. combining Rpi with moode through USB. planning switch to I2S. Noticed there is built in USB type-c on DAC board, curious what for

 

[Raxumit]

Received this beast. so far so good. combining Rpi with moode through USB. planning switch to I2S. Noticed there is built in USB type-c on DAC board, curious what for

When this DAC board is used elsewhere, I think it can be powered by a USB-C adapter. Since the DAC board pulls 5V from the Hypex amp, this isn't needed, so they've put the jack facing right up to the back panel, making it inaccessible.

Pictures here for the curious:

 

[Bleib]

Sorry, I might have missed the information. But how do these amps react to different impedance, does it change the frequency curve any way?

 

[tomaxsas]

I have another idea is the volume control digital or analog. If digital would be nice to integrate it with RPi so volume can be adjusted from moodeaudio. I know i can use software volume but it does not solve all problems

 

[Bleib]

I have another idea is the volume control digital or analog. If digital would be nice to integrate it with RPi so volume can be adjusted from moodeaudio. I know i can use software volume but it does not solve all problems

Digital based on the DAC inside the amp

 

[tomaxsas]

have anyone successfully utilized i2s? tried to connect with RPi 4, selected ES9038 DAC in moode audio. but no sound. Connected 3 wires, DATA BCk LRCK, should GND be connected as well? Or general i2s overlay should be used? Thanks!

 

[DTTOM37]

have anyone successfully utilized i2s? tried to connect with RPi 4, selected ES9038 DAC in moode audio. but no sound. Connected 3 wires, DATA BCk LRCK, should GND be connected as well? Or general i2s overlay should be used? Thanks!

you need to use the overlay for XMOS, afaik