Audiolab 6000CDT experience

[jsrtheta]

Exactly the same experience now on my 2nd slot loader , Audiolab 6000, however I've had both Rotel and Naim products that have failed draw mechanisms.

In what way did they fail? And what transport mechanisms did the Rotel and Naim use?

 

[Deleted member 24508]

Both stopped opening or closing, the Rotel would also not play CD's. They were / are both draw type. I fixed both, one with new o Ring drive the other with silicon spray and manual assistance.

 

[jsrtheta]

Both stopped opening or closing, the Rotel would also not play CD's. They were / are both draw type. I fixed both, one with new o Ring drive the other with silicon spray and manual assistance.

Both of those manufacturers used the Philips CDM-9 transport mechanism in some models ('90s vintage, mostly). Philips used a gear that deteriorated in some machines. And those were used in a lot of players and transports, such as the PS Audio Lambda transports and the Theta Data Basic series. Philips ceased support for them a very long time ago.

You can still find aftermarket replacement gears and belts for them on eBay. They work fine. I recently parted with a Lambda II that had 25 years on it and still ran like a top.

 

[Deleted member 24508]

Both of those manufacturers used the Philips CDM-9 transport mechanism in some models ('90s vintage, mostly). Philips used a gear that deteriorated in some machines. And those were used in a lot of players and transports, such as the PS Audio Lambda transports and the Theta Data Basic series. Philips ceased support for them a very long time ago.

You can still find aftermarket replacement gears and belts for them on eBay. They work fine. I recently parted with a Lambda II that had 25 years on it and still ran like a top.

Some parts readily available, in the end the Rotel remote gave up the ghost so bought a new Audiolab 6000 CDT, much better device. I still use the Naim but the screen has gone. The motto is that each piece of hifi may or may not be unreliable. I had a Yamaha slot loading CD player for years never missed a beat, the draw types I have had were no nearly as reliable..

 

[Mart68]

slot loaders installed in millions of cars, subject to vibration and extremes of temperature for years, how many failed?

Without the proper data it's just speculation to say they are more or less reliable than a draw mech. My guess is they're about the same. Nothing lasts forever.

My thinking is that the Audiolab is cheap enough to replace without too much stress if and when it does die. You could spend a couple of grand on a transport with no guarantee of any further longevity or better SQ.

 

[jsrtheta]

Some parts readily available, in the end the Rotel remote gave up the ghost so bought a new Audiolab 6000 CDT, much better device. I still use the Naim but the screen has gone. The motto is that each piece of hifi may or may not be unreliable. I had a Yamaha slot loading CD player for years never missed a beat, the draw types I have had were no nearly as reliable..

I had a slot loader in my Riviera. When I got rid of the car, it still had a slot loader. And one of my CDs.

I have no desire to take a home player apart to get a CD back. My rule of thumb, never disproven, is the more moving parts, the sooner the mechanical failure.

 

[Deleted member 24508]

I had a slot loader in my Riviera. When I got rid of the car, it still had a slot loader. And one of my CDs.

I have no desire to take a home player apart to get a CD back. My rule of thumb, never disproven, is the more moving parts, the sooner the mechanical failure.

So don't buy a drawer loader or a Rotel or a Naim, that's based upon my particular experience.

 

[Apexplus]

Dear all, am new here. Just saw this thread as I was searching for reviews on CD transport...

My current budget system:
SMSL Sanskrit 10th mk2 as DAC
Audiolab 8000A as preamp
Audiolab 8000P bi-wired to
Sonus Faber Concerto speakers on stand

My old Audiolab 8000CD recently failed with "error" sign on its display, it's gonna cost at least $200 USD to get it fixed based on where I live...
So thinking to get a CD transport to go with my DAC and just read some of the reviews/comments here, 6000CDT seems quite good at its job but gvn its price tag doesnt make sense to pair it with my budget system, no?

 

[Deleted member 24508]

It would seem to be the perfect match. I have one and it is excellent. Oddly it seems a little less 'harsh' in my system using the optical out.

 

[Deleted member 24508]

Having recently acquired the 6000cdt and connected to the Gustard X16 DAC, I am gobsmacked at the performance. I've been listening to my vintage CD collection and the detail and presentation projected by this duo is brilliant. I was never that impressed by the Arcam CDS50 or the Cyrus CDt previously. Glad I made the purchase and now I eagerly wait to pair it to the Topping D90SE DAC.

I found the same with the Arcam and Cyrus, now have the 6000 CDT and could not be happier. CDS50 was dull as dishwater and Cyrus so bright I couldn't finish a track.

 

[jsrtheta]

I found the same with the Arcam and Cyrus, now have the 6000 CDT and could not be happier. CDS50 was dull as dishwater and Cyrus so bright I couldn't finish a track.

I'm not sure how any of that is even possible.

 

[rdenney]

I'm not sure how any of that is even possible.

Remember that a CD player is: A transport that feeds a digital stream into a DAC, the output of which is amplified in the analog domain and available as line-level audio with a reference level of 2 volts RMS. The transport that feeds the digital stream either gets it right or not, and the DAC either deals with what it gets or it doesn't. At least since the late 90's, the DACs were functionally transparent--maybe a bit of residual distortion due to jitter, but with generally dynamic range of at least 90 dB and flat frequency response. But then there is the audio output stage, and those, I believe, have been designed with a house sound in some cases. The choice of filters affects frequency response in the top octave in some cases--my Naim CD5 (which it was working) rolled off FR at 20 KHz by a dB or so, for example.

Whether the differences are audible requires controlled subjective testing, of course. But it is not completely implausible that there would be a spectral tilt or coloration in the analog stage to give the player a characteristic sound. Even a fraction of a dB, broadly applied, is perceptible.

When used as a transport, as long as the digital stream is delivered without error, that work of converting it to audio is done by the external DAC. Some of those have a house sound, too, but not the ones usually recommended based on ASR reviews.

That said, I can't hear the difference between my many CD players, even when listening through high-resolution headphone amps and cans. I've tried, though not formally. If detecting the difference required that formal a test, then the difference is too subtle to be something I care about.

Rick "not confusing plausibility with truth" Denney

 

[jsrtheta]

Remember that a CD player is: A transport that feeds a digital stream into a DAC, the output of which is amplified in the analog domain and available as line-level audio with a reference level of 2 volts RMS. The transport that feeds the digital stream either gets it right or not, and the DAC either deals with what it gets or it doesn't. At least since the late 90's, the DACs were functionally transparent--maybe a bit of residual distortion due to jitter, but with generally dynamic range of at least 90 dB and flat frequency response. But then there is the audio output stage, and those, I believe, have been designed with a house sound in some cases. The choice of filters affects frequency response in the top octave in some cases--my Naim CD5 (which it was working) rolled off FR at 20 KHz by a dB or so, for example.

Whether the differences are audible requires controlled subjective testing, of course. But it is not completely implausible that there would be a spectral tilt or coloration in the analog stage to give the player a characteristic sound. Even a fraction of a dB, broadly applied, is perceptible.

When used as a transport, as long as the digital stream is delivered without error, that work of converting it to audio is done by the external DAC. Some of those have a house sound, too, but not the ones usually recommended based on ASR reviews.

That said, I can't hear the difference between my many CD players, even when listening through high-resolution headphone amps and cans. I've tried, though not formally. If detecting the difference required that formal a test, then the difference is too subtle to be something I care about.

Rick "not confusing plausibility with truth" Denney

He's talking about a transport imparting a sonic signature. Not what the DAC does.

 

[Sashoir]

Remember that a CD player is: A transport that feeds a digital stream into a DAC, the output of which is amplified in the analog domain and available as line-level audio with a reference level of 2 volts RMS. The transport that feeds the digital stream either gets it right or not, and the DAC either deals with what it gets or it doesn't. At least since the late 90's, the DACs were functionally transparent--maybe a bit of residual distortion due to jitter, but with generally dynamic range of at least 90 dB and flat frequency response. But then there is the audio output stage, and those, I believe, have been designed with a house sound in some cases. The choice of filters affects frequency response in the top octave in some cases--my Naim CD5 (which it was working) rolled off FR at 20 KHz by a dB or so, for example.

Whether the differences are audible requires controlled subjective testing, of course. But it is not completely implausible that there would be a spectral tilt or coloration in the analog stage to give the player a characteristic sound. Even a fraction of a dB, broadly applied, is perceptible.

When used as a transport, as long as the digital stream is delivered without error, that work of converting it to audio is done by the external DAC. Some of those have a house sound, too, but not the ones usually recommended based on ASR reviews.

That said, I can't hear the difference between my many CD players, even when listening through high-resolution headphone amps and cans. I've tried, though not formally. If detecting the difference required that formal a test, then the difference is too subtle to be something I care about.

Rick "not confusing plausibility with truth" Denney

Was it the case that previously CD players line-level output was at a much lower output (potential difference-wise)? I am almost sure that my old compact disc player's output was 3/4 of a volt, or 1/√2 of a volt, or something like that. Or am I misremembering completely? I know I was confused when first I came to this site and found D/A converters being tested for a 2V output over phono connectors).

 

[rdenney]

Was it the case that previously CD players line-level output was at a much lower output (potential difference-wise)? I am almost sure that my old compact disc player's output was 3/4 of a volt, or 1/√2 of a volt, or something like that. Or am I misremembering completely? I know I was confused when first I came to this site and found D/A converters being tested for a 2V output over phono connectors).

My recollection is that the advent of CD's redefined the standard line-level for consumer equipment to 2 volts to allow for the greater dynamic range of CD's, while still maintaining enough voltage at low levels to get above the noise floor.

Rick "whose late-80's CD players put out 2 volts nominally" Denney

 

[Sashoir]

My recollection is that the advent of CD's redefined the standard line-level for consumer equipment to 2 volts to allow for the greater dynamic range of CD's, while still maintaining enough voltage at low levels to get above the noise floor.

Rick "whose late-80's CD players put out 2 volts nominally" Denney

Thank you!

 

[jsrtheta]

My recollection is that the advent of CD's redefined the standard line-level for consumer equipment to 2 volts to allow for the greater dynamic range of CD's, while still maintaining enough voltage at low levels to get above the noise floor.

Rick "whose late-80's CD players put out 2 volts nominally" Denney

Actually, as outboard DACs became a thing, a number of manufacturers, such as Theta and PS Audio, made 5 volt output their standard. Which was not a good move.

 

[Deleted member 24508]

I'm not sure how any of that is even possible.

Nor am I.

 

[Deleted member 24508]

Sounds like a scientific approach

Hifi is designed to be listened to, that is its sole purpose. Of course you can choose by some other means if you like.

 

[Deleted member 24508]

Scratches are easy. People don't realise that the focal point of the laser is well below the surface and even deep playing surface polycarbonate scratches don't affect the reflected light. Interuptions to the data layer are a different thing.

If you player can play a disc like this with extreme data layer damage and playing surface scratches, then we are talking.

https://www.audiosciencereview.com/.../lets-talk-cd-players.9104/page-5#post-234887

The point is all CD players are obviously not the same.