Can you show a similar 3" mid dome from Peerless? All I have seen have not the characteristic shape, material and especially 2 thin wires at the exact same position.Reports are that these are custom made by Peerless India if you search there photos of them in other threads.
But does the the ATC driver really weights X10 than the KH310 driver?I personally know an engineer who had the same opinion. I used to play the drums but these days just a Uke. My opinion the ATC was closer to the real instrument.
3db increase is a doubling in power . 3db is 50 percent gain in perception volume . 6db is a doubling in perception volume .The magic midrange dome is all cult of personality. Independent lab data shows it was obliterated by the contemporaneous Neumann dome, which can play 10dB (10 times more power handling, twice as loud) before it distorts as much as the ATC dome. What a joke. To add to this humiliation, teardowns show that the Neumann dome has a much more compact footprint, allowing tighter centre-to-centre spacing. This certainly exposes ATC as a laughably backward brand capable of only designing large primitive drivers that still fail to reach the SOTA despite the size and weight penalty.
Driver size and weight is a stupid metric especially for the passband of the ATC where you are dealing with wavelengths that make tighter centre to centre spacing a necessity for driver integration and reduced vertical lobing. A driver with a 3.5" radiating surface but a footprint like a 7" cone is hopeless.
But does the the ATC driver really weights X10 than the KH310 driver?
The magic midrange dome is all cult of personality. Independent lab data shows it was obliterated by the contemporaneous Neumann dome, which can play 10dB (10 times more power handling, twice as loud) before it distorts as much as the ATC dome. What a joke. To add to this humiliation, teardowns show that the Neumann dome has a much more compact footprint, allowing tighter centre-to-centre spacing. This certainly exposes ATC as a laughably backward brand capable of only designing large primitive drivers that still fail to reach the SOTA despite the size and weight penalty.
Driver size and weight is a stupid metric especially for the passband of the ATC where you are dealing with wavelengths that make tighter centre to centre spacing a necessity for driver integration and reduced vertical lobing. A driver with a 3.5" radiating surface but a footprint like a 7" cone is hopeless.
3db increase is a doubling in power . 3db is 50 percent gain in perception volume . 6db is a doubling in perception volume .
Was the test comparison the standard non s spec dome that was previously available to public and other manufacturers or superdome ? Maybe you should look at max continous volume available from scm 300. I believe that the mid in that is another above the s spec dome.Have you heard any of the large ATC?
But does the the ATC driver really weights X10 than the KH310 driver?
How much is the weight of the driver important anyways?
But does the the ATC driver really weights X10 than the KH310 driver?
How much is the weight of the driver important anyways?But does the the ATC driver really weights X10 than the KH310 driver?
How much is the weight of the driver important anyways?
Their tweeters are neo . So maybe the mid will soon change . The 6inch mid in big Gennys has a monster old magnet as well.But does the the ATC driver really weights X10 than the KH310 driver?
How much is the weight of the driver T
Probably yes, it has a huge ferrite magnet vs smaller neo magnet.is this true?(taken from GS)
View attachment 163708
3db increase is a doubling in power . 3db is 50 percent gain in perception volume . 6db is a doubling in perception volume .
"While every 6 dB SPL represents a doubling of amplitude, a non-exact rule-of-thumb is that every 10 dB increase is a doubling of perceived loudness"
As for whether it is the super dome - I don't think its particularly relevant, because the closest competitor in the speaker form factor was the 310A. Similar size, and shape and their production runs overlapped. During the time of review the 310 was already out.
"While every 6 dB SPL represents a doubling of amplitude, a non-exact rule-of-thumb is that every 10 dB increase is a doubling of perceived loudness"
As for whether it is the super dome - I don't think its particularly relevant, because the closest competitor in the speaker form factor was the 310A. Similar size, and shape and their production runs overlapped. During the time of review the 310 was already out.
The discussion in this forum revolves about which is better . Best we magically obtain a mid from a 300a . The superdome has been in production for quite some time . Otherwise we will alway's be going around in these circles."While every 6 dB SPL represents a doubling of amplitude, a non-exact rule-of-thumb is that every 10 dB increase is a doubling of perceived loudness"
As for whether it is the super dome - I don't think its particularly relevant, because the closest competitor in the speaker form factor was the 310A. Similar size, and shape and their production runs overlapped. During the time of review the 310 was already out.
"While every 6 dB SPL represents a doubling of amplitude, a non-exact rule-of-thumb is that every 10 dB increase is a doubling of perceived loudness"
As for whether it is the super dome - I don't think its particularly relevant, because the closest competitor in the speaker form factor was the 310A. Similar size, and shape and their production runs overlapped. During the time of review the 310 was already out.
"While every 6 dB SPL represents a doubling of amplitude, a non-exact rule-of-thumb is that every 10 dB increase is a doubling of perceived loudness"
As for whether it is the super dome - I don't think its particularly relevant, because the closest competitor in the speaker form factor was the 310A. Similar size, and shape and their production runs overlapped. During the time of review the 310 was already out.
1.We have not seen a side to side to comparison and the "independent" test was a former Neumann employee.The magic midrange dome is all cult of personality. Independent lab data shows it was obliterated by the contemporaneous Neumann dome, which can play 10dB (10 times more power handling, twice as loud) before it distorts as much as the ATC dome. What a joke. To add to this humiliation, teardowns show that the Neumann dome has a much more compact footprint, allowing tighter centre-to-centre spacing. This certainly exposes ATC as a laughably backward brand capable of only designing large primitive drivers that still fail to reach the SOTA despite the size and weight penalty.
Driver size and weight is a stupid metric especially for the passband of the ATC where you are dealing with wavelengths that make tighter centre to centre spacing a necessity for driver integration and reduced vertical lobing. A driver with a 3.5" radiating surface but a footprint like a 7" cone is hopeless.
Can you show a similar 3" mid dome from Peerless? All I have seen have not the characteristic shape, material and especially 2 thin wires at the exact same position.
Test: Monitor Klein + Hummel O 500 C/O 900
Technologieträger Mit dem Main-Monitor-System O 500 C inklusive Subwoofer O 900 und den Powerendstufen Pro A 2000 der Firma Klein + Hummel, ...www.professional-audio.deBetter dome midrange design than ATC?
The driver would burn at playback levels the ATC/Volt mid could easily handle. This disqualifies it as a midrange driver for large format speakers.. Are you sure or is this a knee jerk reaction? As Purifi have already done a midrange version of their 6.5" unit I anticipate a 4" midrange...www.diyaudio.comGearspace.com - View Single Post - Klein + Hummel O 500 C
Post 8267011 -Forum for professional and amateur recording engineers to share techniques and advice.gearspace.com
By the way the O500C is not produced for approx. 10 years now so also its drivers are a thing of the past and coincide to the time where ATC stopped offering their drivers for other companies and DIY.
And what do you want to show with this? I was saying that O500C dome was an ATC one, not the KH310 one.
Just data sheet specs without any proving measurements curves should be always be viewed with doubt as they can be measured also with different standards.As i showed company specs show much higher thd above 100hz even ar 95db and mediocre noise levels.
Who was that employee and can you please provide a source of that?We have not seen a side to side to comparison and the "independent" test was a former Neumann employee.
Can you show a similar 3" mid dome from Peerless? All I have seen have not the characteristic shape, material and especially 2 thin wires at the exact same position.
Test: Monitor Klein + Hummel O 500 C/O 900
Technologieträger Mit dem Main-Monitor-System O 500 C inklusive Subwoofer O 900 und den Powerendstufen Pro A 2000 der Firma Klein + Hummel, ...www.professional-audio.deBetter dome midrange design than ATC?
The driver would burn at playback levels the ATC/Volt mid could easily handle. This disqualifies it as a midrange driver for large format speakers.. Are you sure or is this a knee jerk reaction? As Purifi have already done a midrange version of their 6.5" unit I anticipate a 4" midrange...www.diyaudio.comGearspace.com - View Single Post - Klein + Hummel O 500 C
Post 8267011 -Forum for professional and amateur recording engineers to share techniques and advice.gearspace.com
By the way the O500C is not produced for approx. 10 years now so also its drivers are a thing of the past and coincide to the time where ATC stopped offering their drivers for other companies and DIY.
This is the 3" dome reportedly custom made from Peerless India. Not going to find it in Peerless catalogues.And what do you want to show with this? I was saying that O500C dome was an ATC one, not the KH310 one.
Can be, I was talking though about the O500C dome which was made from ATC so I guess there was a misunderstanding.This is the 3" dome reportedly custom made from Peerless India. Not going to find it in Peerless catalogues.
1.We have not seen a side to side to comparison and the "independent" test was a former Neumann employee.
2.In the impletatations they are used in a much narrower bandwidth leading to increased thd and imd from the bass drivers in the upper midbass - lower midbass
3. The power compression in the KH 420 is showing the bass driver playing 8 db lower than midrange in max SPL how useful is this?
4. As i showed company specs show much higher thd above 100hz even ar 95db
Why not go and listen ?Just data sheet specs without any proving measurements curves should be always be viewed with doubt as they can be measured also with different standards.
Who was that employee and can you please provide a source of that?
Talking about independent measurements, here are the distortion measurements of the Stereoplay magazine of the active 15000€ pair price ATC SCM 50 A SL Tower FF
View attachment 163788
and for example the 1500€ pair price intro range 2-way 6,5" Genelec M040
View attachment 163789
While being better not really impressive for that price and being a 3-way.
Guy's I find this forum interesting . The debate here is what is the better dome . Get the best ATC dome and see what happens. Go and listen to a set of scm300a and tell yourself its midrange is distorting more than a KH420a at any reasonable level. I suspect the mid that is required to keep up with two 15's may win. Would be great to see more people sharing what speaker's they use under their profile please.I had mine up the day I joined rather than my ugly headJust data sheet specs without any proving measurements curves should be always be viewed with doubt as they can be measured also with different standards.
Who was that employee and can you please provide a source of that?
Talking about independent measurements, here are the distortion measurements of the Stereoplay magazine of the active 15000€ pair price ATC SCM 50 A SL Tower FF
View attachment 163788
and for example the 1500€ pair price intro range 2-way 6,5" Genelec M040
View attachment 163789
While being better not really impressive for 10 times the price and being a large 3-way.
Also here are the max SPL measurements of the Sound & Recording magazine of the ATC SCM 25 ASL Pro
View attachment 163790
and its direct competitor, the Neumann KH310 with the "lightweight mid driver" which costs approximately half
View attachment 163791
The measurements talk for themselves.
The ATC plays lower in the actual implentation why is it not the case with the Neumann midnif it is the better unit? What is the benefit?Can be, I was talking though about the O500C dome which was made from ATC so I guess there was a misunderstanding.
Anyway, that KH310 dome you show measures better than the ATC one, as I just showed also from independent measurements.