ATC speakers / Monitors

[thewas]

Get the best ATC dome and see what happens. Go and listen to a set of scm300a and tell yourself its midrange is distorting more than a KH420a at any reasonable level.

At a reasonable level both won't distort audibly but

The debate here is what is the better dome

and the claims of the ATC fans are not supported by measurements which show that the Neumann one distort less and can do higher max SPL.

 

[thewas]

The ATC plays lower in the actual implentation why is it not the case with the Neumann midnif it is the better unit? What is the benefit?

?? If they decided to cross it lower it is their problem, in their common application region the Neumann one measures better, the rest is speculation.

 

[Elkios]

At a reasonable level both won't distort audibly but

and the claims of the ATC fans are not supported by measurements which show that the Neumann one distort less and can do higher max SPL.

Sorry I should have said reasonably loud. Have you heard the 420a and scm300a.What speakers do you own?

 

[Chrise36]

?? If they decided to cross it lower it is their problem, in their common application region the Neumann one measures better, the rest is speculation.

In my opinion the midrange should go as lower as possible in the usable spl range and not let the woofer go high in lower midrange that is my objection. If we are to compare the two drivers we have to compare in the same bandwidth. Both are very good drivers but we still can' t say that Neumann is better because it plays louder in max SPL.

 

[Pearljam5000]

?? If they decided to cross it lower it is their problem, in their common application region the Neumann one measures better, the rest is speculation.

Then i need to tell this guy that he's wrong

 

[thewas]

In my opinion the midrange should go as lower as possible in the usable spl range and not let the woofer go high in lower midrange that is my objection.

I don't agree, a driver should go as deep as it has for no discontinuities in the radiation width and the Neumann implementations are excellent regarding directivity smoothness.

If we are to compare the two drivers we have to compare in the same bandwidth

We have to compare them in their operating range and in the common one the Neumann shows better measurements, the rest is as said speculation.

 

[TimVG]

Then i need to tell this guy that he's wrong
View attachment 163797

Textbook example of sighted bias combined with pride of ownership.

 

[thewas]

Then i need to tell this guy that he's wrong
View attachment 163797

If I were you I wouldn't start bothering in forums where sound quality is measured in kilogramms and mixed up with subjective individual experiences.

 

[Chrise36]

Sorry I should have said reasonably loud. Have you heard the 420a and scm300a.What speakers do you own?

What is your impressions between the two?

 

[thewas]

Sorry I should have said reasonably loud. Have you heard the 420a and scm300a.What speakers do you own?

Have heard the KH420 and several ATC 3-ways quite often but not the SCM300, but that doesn't play a role, we are talking here about the objective side of audio, not listening experiences which usually were in different rooms at different times. And don't get me wrong, I like the voicing of ATC loudspeakers but on the other hand also cannot leave claims/hypes uncommented.

 

[Chrise36]

I don't agree, a driver should go as deep as it has for no discontinuities in the radiation width and the Neumann implementations are excellent regarding directivity smoothness.

We have to compare them in their operating range and in the common one the Neumann shows better measurements, the rest is as said speculation.

What is the indication that directivity smoothness is more important than imd and thd in the midrange?

 

[aac]

What is the indication that directivity smoothness is more important than imd and thd in the midrange?

But IMD increases as you increase driver operating range? It's one of the reasons multiple-way loudspeakers exist.
More frequencies to play = more IMD.
Anyway IMD and even THD of ATC loudspeakers are a mystery.

 

[Elkios]

Have heard the KH420 and several ATC 3-ways quite often but not the SCM300, but that doesn't play a role, we are talking here about the objective side of audio, not listening experiences which usually were in different rooms at different times. And don't get me wrong, I like the voicing of ATC loudspeakers but on the other hand also cannot leave claims/hypes uncommented.

I have respect for Neumann . I think the 310a is probably the best bang for buck speaker around . I just don't think it sounds as real as the scm50 mids and model's up and that as you know is not the standard mid. We just need to get a mid from a 300a to test.

 

[thewas]

What is the indication that directivity smoothness is more important than imd and thd in the midrange?

Why do you think that the HD and IMD of the Neumann are worse? Due to a more modern driver design and higher crossover actually they are better.

 

[thewas]

I have respect for Neumann . I think the 310a is probably the best bang for buck speaker around . I just don't think it sounds as real as the scm50 mids and model's up and that as you know is not the standard mid. We just need to get a mid from a 300a to test.

The differences that you hear are mainly differences in the directivity and not in driver distortions (at least with non-earbleeding levels) so pure driver measurements won't really take us further regarding that.

 

[tuga]

and the claims of the ATC fans are not supported by measurements which show that the Neumann one distort less and can do higher max SPL.

The real question for me is whether "the ATC fans" find that on an objective listening assessment the ATC mid is better, or if they prefer the "presentation" of the ATC dome over that of the Neumann. (like the musician in the video posted earlier)

If it is (just) a matter of preference then there's no point in arguing whether they're right or wrong. People like what they like.

 

[thewas]

The real question for me is whether "the ATC fans" find that on an objective listening assessmente th ATC mid is better, or if they prefer the "presentation" of the ATC dome over that of the Neumann.

If it is (just) a matter of preference then there's no point in arguing whether they're right or wrong. People like what they like.

Of course, I have no problem when people say they like loudspeaker A better than B, only when they write that is is objectively better just because they liked it more and start attributing the different directivity they hear to driver qualities and weight...

 

[q3cpma]

Genelec is here to mediate:

 

[thewas]

Genelec is here to mediate:

Guess that is the 5" cone driver of one of their main monitors? Truth to be said it has also more than double the surface so can't be directly compared to a 3" dome driver.

 

[q3cpma]

Guess that is that 5" cone driver of one of their main monitors? Truth to be said it has also more than double the surface so can't be directly compared to a 3" dome driver.

Indeed, it is. I'd say the surface is irrelevant, as the KH420 crosses its dome at 2 kHz, while the 1237A's cone is done at 3 kHz (while being crossed ~100 Hz lower); the phase plug must not be for show.