ATC speakers / Monitors

[YSDR]

Actually not very; these use an overhung VC where ATC uses an underhung VC.

According to some who have heard both, the Volt midrange doesn't subjectively sound like the ATC either.

 

[574stereo]

The Volt internally resembles a lot of dome drivers. Externally it’s the same as the ATC but internally it still has a single suspension, long coil in a short gap, overhung magnet and a significantly wider coil gap than the ATC.

The ATC is still a pretty astonishing driver with great dispersion characteristics. It’s been in continuous evolving production since the mid/late 70s I think.

 

[Torbachkristensen]

ATC tested by Jeff Bagby (r.i.p.)

The ATC 75-150S by Jeff Bagby.pdf | Powered by Box

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Yeah, these measurements confirm precisely how it is to work and listen to ATC 3-ways. That midrange is exceptional, and a testament to great engineering.

 

[Torbachkristensen]

In what respect? What do you recommend as to optimizing ATC's design?

You need to have minimal reflections from the sidewalls and a dedicated listening position, and ideally, I find the speakers just work at their best in a soffit mount. Otherwise be prepared to make fairly substantial bass treatment. I know all speakers benefit from a good room, but there is no doubt ATC is a fairly bass light speaker when freestanding, and it is certainly not very well behaved on low-mid and low directivity, which seems to emphasize that part.

I would not recommend ATC25 or ATC45. They have lower spec drivers, and the 45 is essentially made to be placed on the meterbridge of a big mixing console, or similar. Kind of a weird speaker if you ask me.

But I make a living mixing and mastering, so for me dedicating a room is part of my business and everyday life. Not the same for the home listener

 

[goat76]

I think a distortion comparison between the ATC mid-dome driver and something like the KEF Uni-Q driver is interesting, especially when looking at the KEF LS60 as that speaker has similar crossover points as all the ATC 3-way speakers. The crossover points for the ATCs are 380Hz and 3.5kHz, and 340Hz and 3.1kHz for the LS60.

Which one of these two drivers do you see as the "state of the art" driver? (Yes I know, one of them is sitting in a box. But still.)

A lot lower level for the distortion measurements of my SCM40s, so not meant as a comparison with the above measurements.

 

[thewas]

With careful selection of competitors anything can be "proven", in this case the only 4" Uni-Q (of a narrow wireless "lifestyle" box).

If we take though a current state of the art Uni-Q the things look differently

not to talk about the continuous horizontal and vertical dispersion where any current KEF is superior.

Also as I had shown here in the past the Neumann KH420 mid dome bettered the ATC one of its predecessor in the frequency range it is was used.

This doesn't mean of course that the ATC mid dome isn't a great driver, (even more in 1974? when it was first released) but it takes more to make a state of the art loudspeaker and the world keeps evolving.

PS: Distortion measurements from different sources should be usually taken with a grain of salt as they are mostly not anechoical and thus not perfectly comparable.

 

[boxerfan88]

Also as I had shown here in the past the Neumann KH420 mid dome bettered the ATC one of its predecessor in the frequency range it is was used.

Wow … nice !!!

 

[goat76]

With careful selection of competitors anything can be "proven", in this case the only 4" Uni-Q (of a narrow wireless "lifestyle" box).

That wasn't my intention. The LS60 just happens to be a highly respected loudspeaker, one that many people here at ASR would call a “state of the art” speaker even if it's a distortion box in comparison to most ATC speakers. A speaker can obviously be quite bad in certain technical aspects and still be something many people like.

ATC speakers are not perfect in every way, but I think the exceptionally low distortion may be one of the reason why people like them.

 

[Purité Audio]

When a speaker colours the sound such as ATC that is distortion.
Keith

 

[holdingpants01]

comparing distortion measurements without known level is worthless at best and misleading at worst

 

[goat76]

comparing distortion measurements without known level is worthless at best and misleading at worst

We can see the level used in all of the measurements above.

 

[goat76]

When a speaker colours the sound such as ATC that is distortion.
Keith

They measure well enough to be considered neutral. The same goes for the LS60.

 

[Purité Audio]

No not really their colouration is quite explicit when you compare them to uncoloured loudspeakers, it is always a question of audibility.
Keith

 

[YSC]

comparing distortion measurements without known level is worthless at best and misleading at worst

also noise floor did affect the measurements, gear used, location of measurement and distance from the driver etc. all contribute to the distortion. Let alone neutrality and room reflection issues.. and from different sources the usefullness is also problematic. like the distortion of his own speaker in his room get quite nice distortion at -55db to -60db from fundamental at ~75db, but then from Amirm's distortion plot of the 8030C, which I believen none would say the driver is the lowest distortion SOTA one... and I personally don't think it can compare to the ATC mid driver or 3 way ATC drivers, but from the graph, from >150hz onward at 86db SPL @1m, it stays at the same 0.1%-0.2% distortion, which, if I put in on comparison...

 

[dfuller]

When a speaker colours the sound such as ATC that is distortion.
Keith

Okay, let's be clear here. Linear distortion is not the same as nonlinear. Linear is just EQ. Nonlinear is adding stuff that wasn't there. ATC has some linear distortion, but generally pretty low nonlinear.

No not really their colouration is quite explicit when you compare them to uncoloured loudspeakers, it is always a question of audibility.
Keith

FWIW, I directly compared the DD8C and Kii to the SCM50ASL recently. Any of them is close enough to neutral that I could work comfortably, but to call the DD8C and the Kii "uncoloured" is blatantly incorrect. Just because it looks pretty on the Klippel doesn't necessarily guarantee its behavior.

 

[Purité Audio]

You can’t eq out ATCs rough off-axis, with all due respect I lived with all those three speakers for four years and the 50s are coloured in comparison, bass light , with absolutely no adjustment, they were useful though because it made the 8`cs really easy to sell once a customer was able to compare both side by side.
IME the ‘prettier’ the measurements the more transparent the loudspeaker.
Keith

 

[dfuller]

You can’t eq out ATCs rough off-axis, with all due respect I lived with all those three speakers for four years and the 50s are coloured in comparison, bass light , with absolutely no adjustment, they were useful though because it made the 8`cs really easy to sell once a customer was able to compare both side by side.
IME the ‘prettier’ the measurements the more transparent the loudspeaker.
Keith

Yeah, the solution is not EQ. It's room treatment. EQ is not by any stretch of the imagination a panacea, despite what people here want to believe.

 

[Purité Audio]

I agree but in domestic shared rooms broadband passive absorption is unsurprisingly not that popular.
The contemporary active designs with their technical advantages just sound better in people’s rooms it really is that straightforward.
Keith

 

[Pearljam5000]

Which monitors are more common in studios
Genelec or ATC?

 

[dfuller]

Which monitors are more common in studios
Genelec or ATC?

Both are extremely commonplace.