ATC speakers / Monitors

[TheBatsEar]

What will the scm40 bring over the 19? A fuller midrange? Are they more of the same sound but just able to fill a bigger space or existing space better?

Better F3, less distortion and smoother FR is what i expect.

 

[Chrise36]

Better F3, less distortion and smoother FR is what i expect.

Also I ab compared my scm20 passive with my 40. Absolutely no comparison in midrange clarity and bass is a bit better cause of the larger box also the tweeter in my old versions was different.Also you can tri amp which i am now doing actually bi amp with class ab in the tweeter and class d in the mid and bass. But if you high pass the 20 above 200 - 250hz and put it on a good upright woofer it gets interesting...

 

[DSJR]

Thanks. The USA pricing makes it hard to choose. 11 are like $2800, 12 are like $2100. 19 are $4799 and 20 are $4995, at least from a Google search.

Due to that pricing, I am not sure about the 20s, especially since it appears we get gouged in the USA vs UK. The 12 are much cheaper than the 11s but may be more revealing and analytical. I was told they have the same drivers and sound but the 19 and 20s are less alike due to different crossover.

I may be wrong, but I thought the 11 and 12 were the same thing in different boxes... Don't see how the 12 could be 'more revealing and analytical' if allelse is equal. I wouldn't say that ATC's have screamed DETAIL at you since the actives changed their amp packs back in 1993

The 19 and 20 Classic again appear to use similar parts apart from the boxes. The curvy boxes don't seem as substantial as the classic box with thick baffle bolted to it. As I've said a few times, the balance is deliberate for the original intended function and if it suits a smaller room as well as a meter bridge, then great

Such a shame the prices vary so much each side of the pond - US products here have much higher prices quite often.

 

[DSJR]

Also I ab compared my scm20 passive with my 40. Absolutely no comparison in midrange clarity and bass is a bit better cause of the larger box also the tweeter in my old versions was different.Also you can tri amp which i am now doing actually bi amp with class ab in the tweeter and class d in the mid and bass. But if you high pass the 20 above 200 - 250hz and put it on a good upright woofer it gets interesting...

Don't tri amp the passives - replace them with the active one instead (not sure if the 40's can be upgraded to active with substitution of the active amp packs as you can the 50 and 100 models). Apologies for going on about this, but ATC's once insistance-with-proof has got lost over the decades as domestic sales have become more important, the domestic side all but immune to the charms of good active models

 

[Chrise36]

Don't tri amp the passives - replace them with the active one instead (not sure if the 40's can be upgraded to active with substitution of the active amp packs as you can the 50 and 100 models). Apologies for going on about this, but ATC's once insistance-with-proof has got lost over the decades as domestic sales have become more important, the domestic side all but immune to the charms of good active models

Even if it can be done it would cost an arm and a leg. My current amps are quite transparent and combining different class amps i was able to solve noise issues in my system. Everything else regarding frequency and timing can be done but i dont find any problems as it is. Also having separate volume controls for bass and treble is a plus for me.

 

[DSJR]

Even if it can be done it would cost an arm and a leg. My current amps are quite transparent and combining different class amps i was able to solve noise issues in my system. Everything else regarding frequency and timing can be done but i dont find any problems as it is. Also having separate volume controls for bass and treble is a plus for me.

That's fine then, but do be aware how tricky this particular mid dome is to utilise in a passive system as it's narrow band and ATC use it almost wide open - I come from a training/conditioning that suggests the individual drivers ideally need an octave each side of their passband so the crossover can work more as predicted, or something similar to that ideal.

 

[Chrise36]

I am curious how Quested or PMC used the midrange in its monitors regarding crossover points. There was a project by Jeff Bagby where je used Raal tweeters with it but i cant find what crossover points he used.

 

[Pearljam5000]

Love this finish

 

[ethanhallbeyer]

Also I ab compared my scm20 passive with my 40. Absolutely no comparison in midrange clarity and bass is a bit better cause of the larger box also the tweeter in my old versions was different.Also you can tri amp which i am now doing actually bi amp with class ab in the tweeter and class d in the mid and bass. But if you high pass the 20 above 200 - 250hz and put it on a good upright woofer it gets interesting...

Do you mean the scm20 with a sub and offloading LF to the sub could get closer to scm40?

 

[ethanhallbeyer]

I may be wrong, but I thought the 11 and 12 were the same thing in different boxes... Don't see how the 12 could be 'more revealing and analytical' if allelse is equal. I wouldn't say that ATC's have screamed DETAIL at you since the actives changed their amp packs back in 1993

The 19 and 20 Classic again appear to use similar parts apart from the boxes. The curvy boxes don't seem as substantial as the classic box with thick baffle bolted to it. As I've said a few times, the balance is deliberate for the original intended function and if it suits a smaller room as well as a meter bridge, then great

Such a shame the prices vary so much each side of the pond - US products here have much higher prices quite often.

From what I gathered from Brad the 19 and 20 pro while using the same drivers use different crossovers so the former is warmer than the latter. That difference may not apply to the 11 and 12 pro.

 

[ethanhallbeyer]

For 5k buy the KH 3ways.Find a used 40 or 50. With the 50 you dont need a sub.

Are you talking about kh 420? Read some post saying kh make everything sound the same. Have you compared with atc? If so how would they be similar and different?

 

[Chrise36]

Do you mean the scm20 with a sub and offloading LF to the sub could get closer to scm40?

Yes it cleans the midrange quite a bit.Also my old SCM20 had less tweeter presence than the SCM40 V1 which i purchased later and i solved this with bi amping.

 

[Chrise36]

Are you talking about kh 420? Read some post saying kh make everything sound the same. Have you compared with atc? If so how would they be similar and different?

The KH 310.No need for much larger and pricier hor home use.With a bit of eq they will not sound like this if you want sligh warm sound.

 

[ethanhallbeyer]

The KH 310.No need for much larger and pricier hor home use.With a bit of eq they will not sound like this if you want sligh warm sound.

Would you go kh310 or scm20 or scm40 if you had to do over again?

 

[Chrise36]

I am completely satisfied with the 40 after bi amping .The KH in my setup with so much ac noise how would it behave and what about reliability? Active amp noise performance? And would you like it for a living room?

 

[ethanhallbeyer]

No - those are too expensive for me, and too large for my studio (I compose and record), unfortunately. However, I also have the SCM12 passives, which are very good, but are not in the same league as the 20's. As many here are probably aware, the 11's and 19's are the "non-pro" versions of the 12's and 20's - but I've only heard the 12's and 20's.

The 20's do approach/approximate a 3-way design. Marketing says (you've probably already read this):

"The SCM20SL Passive low-frequency section is a hybrid design incorporating a 150mm bass cone with a grafted 75mm soft dome for mid-range assist. The woofer magnet assembly utilizes ATC's unique "SL" technology to greatly reduce third harmonic distortion and reveal mistakes and details. The tweeters are ATCs new dual suspension high powered tweeters. They do not use ferro fluid for cooling so will last a lifetime. A newly redesigned crossover ensures a smooth transition across all frequencies. All ATC drivers are manufactured in-house to exacting tolerances and are legendary for their many design innovations."

As an aside, in my experience, the 20's are better than the Neumann KH310's, even though they do not dig as deep. There's more vitality and clarity to the sound of the 20's, and they are of higher build quality. In some ways, they approach perfection. From what I've read, the active versions are generally considered to be better than the passives! But that's a lot of money there, and, I'm only relaying the opinions of mixing engineers, not of audiophiles.

did you try or consider the 20asl instead of psl? supposedly the actives with tri-amping is even clearer, more effortless sounding..although some may prefer the passives because it sounds a bit more rounded and enjoyable for just musical enjoyment.

 

[dfuller]

The KH in my setup with so much ac noise how would it behave

Just fine, probably - mine are dead silent. Balanced inputs and proper power supply design will do that.

Active amp noise performance

I literally have to be right up on mine (within 10cm) to hear any hiss. At mix position (~1.3m) they're silent.

Are you talking about kh 420?

KH310.

Read some post saying kh make everything sound the same.

Nonsense.

Have you compared with atc? If so how would they be similar and different?

IME, compared to SCM25As, they're pretty damn close. The SCM25As don't extend as low, but the general overall sonic signature is the same, that is to say they're in the right ballpark.

 

[honjr]

did you try or consider the 20asl instead of psl? supposedly the actives with tri-amping is even clearer, more effortless sounding..although some may prefer the passives because it sounds a bit more rounded and enjoyable for just musical enjoyment.

Never tried the asl’s, sorry.

 

[ethanhallbeyer]

Does anyone own SCM20 Pro (actives or passives)? Should there be small holes at the bottom in a Y formation?

 

[Pearljam5000]

New ATC sub