ATC speakers / Monitors

[TheBatsEar]

So glad I got these - money well spent, I'd say.

Good for you

I have mine (SCM 19v2) beaming straight at me and slightly above my ears and like that best. Stereo imaging is superb, i sometimes listen to a track i know for ages and find new information. Things however fall apart, as soon as the speakers beam below my ears. Not sure what that is about, but i'm guessing FR looks different at different vertical angles. Sad thing is, i have the gear to measure it, about time i did it.

There is supposedly a height to stereo imaging, that is, you are supposed to tell sources that come from the floor or ceiling, but i don't get that at all, everything happens on a horizontal plane, if that makes sense.

 

[goat76]

Good for you

I have mine (SCM 19v2) beaming straight at me and slightly above my ears and like that best. Stereo imaging is superb, i sometimes listen to a track i know for ages and find new information. Things however fall apart, as soon as the speakers beam below my ears. Not sure what that is about, but i'm guessing FR looks different at different vertical angles. Sad thing is, i have the gear to measure it, about time i did it.

There is supposedly a height to stereo imaging, that is, you are supposed to tell sources that come from the floor or ceiling, but i don't get that at all, everything happens on a horizontal plane, if that makes sense.

The acoustic axis for ATC's 2-way speakers is at the midpoint between bass/mid driver and tweeter, and the mid-range driver for their 3-way speakers. Maybe your slightly above your ears works in a similar way as the commonly preferred toe-in angle aimed slightly behind the listener's head?

 

[DSJR]

It's my admittedly more limited subjective experience that the ATC 11 is 'flatter' in mid bass to upper mid balance than the 19 and 20SL. Depending on the room and position, depends on which might sound better balanced. Both 20 models I owned (active pre SL and 20ASL pro active models) were on highish stands with listening axis straight on so I couldn't see the 'top' of the speakers. ATC used to provide details to help listening height decisions and so on. Both models were used close to the back wall.

 

[honjr]

Can you elaborate on this? Was looking into the 12's and 20's when I found this post. I've yet to see any speaker that seems like it could take a beating the way these anthracite builds could. Not that "blunt force impact" factors into my speaker buying decisions too much, but I have heard a few with poor bracing and it's quite distracting

I wish I could give you more details - e.g., I've never dropped mine to find out what would happen, and I've never looked inside and compared their bracing to that of other speakers - but the 20's weigh about 40lbs apiece, some of which weight may be due to enhanced bracing. Also, from their website they support a "maximum continuous SPL of 108 dB at 1 meter." I'm sure others here know much more than I do on these, but from everything I've read on other forums they have great build quality.

 

[ethanhallbeyer]

Have had the ATC SCM20psl Pro mkii for a few years now and they are simply superb. Non-fatiguing, see-through clarity, and they literally disappear when working with them. Handle high spl effortlessly, and work well even very close (within a few inches) to a back wall. However, I would only buy them if I got a good deal; otherwise too pricey. I got them at a very good price.

How much did you get them for in USD? Just wondering what a good deal could be.

Right now one dealer is offering 2100 for the 12pro passive with no tax and free shipping. The 20pro for like 4995 no tax and free shipping, so not a real discount.

19 costs more at like $2800 though! I was told the 11 and 12 use same driver bit 19 and 20 differ due to different crossover and latter sounds more sterile, losing some warmth.

My worry is longevity. Have read about polarity reversed and other QA issues that are worrisome.

 

[ethanhallbeyer]

It's my admittedly more limited subjective experience that the ATC 11 is 'flatter' in mid bass to upper mid balance than the 19 and 20SL. Depending on the room and position, depends on which might sound better balanced. Both 20 models I owned (active pre SL and 20ASL pro active models) were on highish stands with listening axis straight on so I couldn't see the 'top' of the speakers. ATC used to provide details to help listening height decisions and so on. Both models were used close to the back wall.

Do they have a thinner sound if not close up against the wall? Like how do they fare say 2-3 feet away?

These seem a bit more finicky on placement to get optimal results than something like a buchardt s400 mk2 but I am drawn to the revealing detail, openness in sound beyond my ls50 meta which sound boxy in comparison.

 

[TheBatsEar]

19 costs more at like $2800 though!

Hmm, did you consider buying used? I'm selling my 19v2 soon (in Europe however) and expect to get about 1500€.

I think i''ll get a pair of SCM40 passives, i feel it's the natural progression after the sweet 19s

Do they have a thinner sound if not close up against the wall? Like how do they fare say 2-3 feet away?

As for bass, i think they have a really defined and clear bass and it goes really deep. Problem is, i can't hear it where i sit, only when i'm a step closer or farther away. Darn room acoustics, am i right?

 

[Chrise36]

Hmm, did you consider buying used? I'm selling my 19v2 soon (in Europe however) and expect to get about 1500€.

I think i''ll get a pair of SCM40 passives, i feel it's the natural progression after the sweet 19s


As for bass, i think they have a really defined and clear bass and it goes really deep. Problem is, i can't hear it where i sit, only when i'm a step closer or farther away. Darn room acoustics, am i right?

V1 or V2?

 

[TheBatsEar]

V1 or V2?

V2. Not sure why people say it's slim on base, i feel it goes incredibly deep, just not at that one spot i am.

This one:

The kit we bought, our current setups

He didn't want to take them back. This was using classifieds, not Ebay or something, so i'm on my own. When i called him before, i asked explicitly if there are any problems or defects. None he said. So i called him, asked him to take them back. His story changed. In the end he denied i even...

www.audiosciencereview.com

 

[DSJR]

Do they have a thinner sound if not close up against the wall? Like how do they fare say 2-3 feet away?

These seem a bit more finicky on placement to get optimal results than something like a buchardt s400 mk2 but I am drawn to the revealing detail, openness in sound beyond my ls50 meta which sound boxy in comparison.

When I had 20's (similar bass units and even the active ASL has similar balance), I used them close to the wall behind and themid bass to mids were fine. The SL driver does seem a little more 'explicit' and the 19A's I heard did have a vivid quality to the upper mids which I liked but with others with large rooms might find too lean, as Amir and the |Klippel did with the ancestor 19V1.

I'd suggest the 11 might be a better all round box for domestic use (in the same room and Naim driven (EEK!) they had plenty of bass but hey, as and when, I'd not turn down a pair of 19V2's (wife woukld prefer 20 Classics due to styling)

 

[Chrise36]

V2. Not sure why people say it's slim on base, i feel it goes incredibly deep, just not at that one spot i am.

This one:

The kit we bought, our current setups

He didn't want to take them back. This was using classifieds, not Ebay or something, so i'm on my own. When i called him before, i asked explicitly if there are any problems or defects. None he said. So i called him, asked him to take them back. His story changed. In the end he denied i even...

www.audiosciencereview.com

Bass is preference and room related. i find them balanced but i also have a sub. In low volume you have to raise the bass somehow.

 

[dfuller]

I have to admit, I found that whole thing absurd. You want bass at volume, you don't buy a small sealed standmount speaker and no sub. That's silly. I know, I know, "but KH310s" - they don't have headroom much at all below 60hz.

 

[honjr]

How much did you get them for in USD? Just wondering what a good deal could be.

Right now one dealer is offering 2100 for the 12pro passive with no tax and free shipping. The 20pro for like 4995 no tax and free shipping, so not a real discount.

19 costs more at like $2800 though! I was told the 11 and 12 use same driver bit 19 and 20 differ due to different crossover and latter sounds more sterile, losing some warmth.

My worry is longevity. Have read about polarity reversed and other QA issues that are worrisome.

I got my 20psl pro mk2's new for $2875 in the US. I would not pay $4995 for them since there are too many other good options out there for less. For the 12's, $2100 is a price I would consider paying (if there's return policy).

Note: I have never listened to the 11's or the 19's, but based on my experience the 20's are clearly better than the 12's. The 12's are more finicky in terms of placement, but sound excellent in certain setups. Also, do not base your decision solely on measurements. Despite the the lack of low-end bass response, the mid-bass in very good indeed. Interestingly, when I measured my ATC 20's with Sonarworks SoundID Reference, they were so flat I did not have to make any adjustments (unlike for say the Triangle Genese Trio's, which I enjoy for the warm sound they make) for my composing and recording work. Caveats for the 12's and 20's: (1) I use these primarily in the near field (4 - 6 ft) and (2) I feel these are good for listening, but if all you do is listen, and you do so from at least say 8 feet away, I might try something like the Buchardts (based on reviews) instead.

I am not aware of any quality control issues with ATC's (12's and 20's in particular). They are incredibly robust from what I understand and have experienced. If however you are concerned about this, I would not invest in the ATC's. Hope that helps a bit!

 

[ethanhallbeyer]

I got my 20psl pro mk2's new for $2875 in the US. I would not pay $4995 for them since there are too many other good options out there for less. For the 12's, $2100 is a price I would consider paying (if there's return policy).

Note: I have never listened to the 11's or the 19's, but based on my experience the 20's are clearly better than the 12's. The 12's are more finicky in terms of placement, but sound excellent in certain setups. Also, do not base your decision solely on measurements. Despite the the lack of low-end bass response, the mid-bass in very good indeed. Interestingly, when I measured my ATC 20's with Sonarworks SoundID Reference, they were so flat I did not have to make any adjustments (unlike for say the Triangle Genese Trio's, which I enjoy for the warm sound they make) for my composing and recording work. Caveats for the 12's and 20's: (1) I use these primarily in the near field (4 - 6 ft) and (2) I feel these are good for listening, but if all you do is listen, and you do so from at least say 8 feet away, I might try something like the Buchardts (based on reviews) instead.

I am not aware of any quality control issues with ATC's (12's and 20's in particular). They are incredibly robust from what I understand and have experienced. If however you are concerned about this, I would not invest in the ATC's. Hope that helps a bit!

Thanks, when did you get your 20s for $2875 and was it in the USA? I heard it is muchbless in the UK vs USA.

Also, you indicated the 12s for $2100 may be worth it but the 20s at $4995 wouldn't because there are cheaper options. But if you got your 29s for $2875 wouldn't the 12s at $2100 way overpriced too? What are cheaper yet just as good options?

By the way, in what ways do you find the 20s clearly better? Have you ever compared to the 25 and 40 by chance?

Lastly, do they sound best close to rear walls vs a few feet away? Read somewhere they may tune these for sounding right closer to rear walls and maybe being too thin away from them. Also, do they just not sound good say from 8 feet+ away?

 

[ethanhallbeyer]

When I had 20's (similar bass units and even the active ASL has similar balance), I used them close to the wall behind and themid bass to mids were fine. The SL driver does seem a little more 'explicit' and the 19A's I heard did have a vivid quality to the upper mids which I liked but with others with large rooms might find too lean, as Amir and the |Klippel did with the ancestor 19V1.

I'd suggest the 11 might be a better all round box for domestic use (in the same room and Naim driven (EEK!) they had plenty of bass but hey, as and when, I'd not turn down a pair of 19V2's (wife woukld prefer 20 Classics due to styling)

Thanks. The USA pricing makes it hard to choose. 11 are like $2800, 12 are like $2100. 19 are $4799 and 20 are $4995, at least from a Google search.

Due to that pricing, I am not sure about the 20s, especially since it appears we get gouged in the USA vs UK. The 12 are much cheaper than the 11s but may be more revealing and analytical. I was told they have the same drivers and sound but the 19 and 20s are less alike due to different crossover.

 

[TheBatsEar]

Lastly, do they sound best close to rear walls vs a few feet away? Read somewhere they may tune these for sounding right closer to rear walls and maybe being too thin away from them. Also, do they just not sound good say from 8 feet+ away?

Wouldn't you fix this stuff with EQ? The 20 can take quite a beating and you can bend them a bit to your will.

Besides, i think you would be well within your natural rights to use a sub for the lowest frequencies. It is, after all, just a 19l closed box.

Also, if you drop almost 5k you should have the right to give the speakers back, if they look at you funny.

 

[ethanhallbeyer]

Hmm, did you consider buying used? I'm selling my 19v2 soon (in Europe however) and expect to get about 1500€.

I think i''ll get a pair of SCM40 passives, i feel it's the natural progression after the sweet 19s


As for bass, i think they have a really defined and clear bass and it goes really deep. Problem is, i can't hear it where i sit, only when i'm a step closer or farther away. Darn room acoustics, am i right?

What will the scm40 bring over the 19? A fuller midrange? Are they more of the same sound but just able to fill a bigger space or existing space better?

 

[honjr]

Thanks, when did you get your 20s for $2875 and was it in the USA? I heard it is muchbless in the UK vs USA.

Also, you indicated the 12s for $2100 may be worth it but the 20s at $4995 wouldn't because there are cheaper options. But if you got your 29s for $2875 wouldn't the 12s at $2100 way overpriced too? What are cheaper yet just as good options?

By the way, in what ways do you find the 20s clearly better? Have you ever compared to the 25 and 40 by chance?

Lastly, do they sound best close to rear walls vs a few feet away? Read somewhere they may tune these for sounding right closer to rear walls and maybe being too thin away from them. Also, do they just not sound good say from 8 feet+ away?

Got my 20's in 2018. I always try to arbitrage the exchange rates whenever possible (i.e. when a foreign item can be purchased outside of the US). The reasons I could now consider the 12's despite the only slightly higher $2875 I paid for the 20's are (1) inflation (2) relative value compared to the current $4995 for the 20's (3) relative value compared to other $2k speakers on offer and (4) price level - am I willing to pay $4995 for any pair of speakers?

Compared to the 12's, the 20's have a truer sound with more body, and can be placed closer to a rear wall without losing their clarity and fidelity. I'm sure they could be played louder if I wanted that. They seem to better "disappear" allowing greater focus on the music. My 20's sound great either close to or farther away from a rear wall. I rarely listen from 8' + so can't really comment on that! If I were to do that, I would certainly make sure to adjust the toe-in since these are not intended to be far-field monitors AFAIK.

Have read some glowing reviews of the active 25's and would love check them out but they are too big for my studio. I know next to nothing about the 40's.

 

[Chrise36]

For 5k buy the KH 3ways.Find a used 40 or 50. With the 50 you dont need a sub.

 

[honjr]

For 5k buy the KH 3ways.Find a used 40 or 50. With the 50 you dont need a sub.

I'd go for the used ATC's at $5K if you can find them - the KH310's are a bit boring