ASR burning the wrong witches?

[Sgt. Ear Ache]

Thanks for the reply. You just mentioned a way which pple could quantify a bad recording. 60hz hum is easily audible and measurable.

Well of course if we're talking about actual technical flaws in the recording...those are going to be pretty easy to identify. But when if comes to "measuring" the quality of general record production we're in a pretty subjective area. I mean if I look at the Ramones first five albums, I'd say the first 3 sound real good. Road to Ruin is a little too "clean" and pristine-sounding and End Of The Century is a bit of a muddy mess. I'm sure there's people out there who feel otherwise. But I'm certainly not wasting any time trying to put together a selection of components that somehow works some magic on End Of The Century specifically. I want to hear all five different albums in whatever form they are recorded whether good or not so good...

 

[Inner Space]

It's why I can't listen to classical music on my stereo.

Clearly you have a very bad system, and rather than take responsibility for your poor choices, you want to blame the recording engineers. Got it. Kids today, honestly ...

 

[Sgt. Ear Ache]

If I'm setting up a home theatre system, I want my projector to display a "true" color balance and noise and distortion-free image. I'm not worried about the quality of the specific film I'm watching or about what the director's intent was relative to the camera guy or the actors. The film exists in whatever form it exists. I'm not trying to find a projector that has some special property that makes a few poorly-engineered films look better.

 

[i_build_stuff]

It's true that recordings generally don't sound the same as the artist did while they were making it, as they made changes to it after the fact. Those distortions are part of the work.

It's like a guitar amp. Lots of the most loved guitar amps have real high distortion.. but that's ok, because the amp is part of the instrument and the artist picked it on purpose just for that.

That doesn't mean your system should be adding extra distortion that's not supposed to be there. That would be like going to an art gallery to look at paintings, with sunglasses on - you'll still see the art, but not like the artist intended.

 

[bluefuzz]

I want my projector to display a "true" color balance and noise and distortion-free image. I'm not worried about the quality of the specific film I'm watching or about what the director's intent was relative to the camera guy or the actors. The film exists in whatever form it exists.

That opens up a whole different can of worms with regard to rereleases of older movies 'remastered' on blu-ray etc. There is a recent tendency for older (60s, 70s) movies to be remastered with a modern 'teal and green' colour-grading æsthetic that bears little resemblence to the original colour-grading even when signed off by the original director or DP. Also, great pains are taken to preserve the grain of older film stock but then they go and aggressively remove any tape-hiss from the soundtrack which totally spoils the ambience for me ...

 

[Gorgonzola]

It's true that recordings generally don't sound the same as the artist did while they were making it, as they made changes to it after the fact. Those distortions are part of the work.

It's like a guitar amp. Lots of the most loved guitar amps have real high distortion.. but that's ok, because the amp is part of the instrument and the artist picked it on purpose just for that.

That doesn't mean your system should be adding extra distortion that's not supposed to be there. That would be like going to an art gallery to look at paintings, with sunglasses on - you'll still see the art, but not like the artist intended.

(Emphasis added.) Yet this is exactly what many hardcore audiophiles do by using tube components or S/S components produced by many makers, e.g. Pass Labs, D'Agostino. The simple fact is that very many audiophiles like their music filtered through one or several layers of 2nd/3rd order harmonic distortion.

Why? Well my hypothesis is that 2nd/3rd order HD (a) sounds pleasant in-and-of itself, (b) masks other distortions, e.g. higher order HD in the same component or anywhere in the repro chain, and (c) masks excessive treble and/or distortions on the recording itself.

 

[Shadrach]

Clearly you have a very bad system, and rather than take responsibility for your poor choices, you want to blame the recording engineers. Got it. Kids today, honestly ...

I must have.

I chose the entire system based on measurements here on ASR and a budget.
Grow up.

Volts and Scanspeak custom monitors to KRK Rokit Gen 4 Model 5 to Genlec 8030C. A story of a complete system chosen on measurements.

I’ve read on a few threads contributors commenting that it would be helpful to have some comment from people who have owned the equipment in question. I’ve been reading ASR since it went online. I was a member here at one point a couple of years ago. I got so disgusted with the dogmatic and...

www.audiosciencereview.com

 

[Shadrach]

With a recent direction this thread is taking it might be worth looking at this existing thread.

Reality Is Overrated When It Comes to Recordings (Article from music Engineer/Producer)

This article appeared a while back in an on-line audiophile review site. (The type I'd guess most people here wouldn't visit). I thought it was quite insightful as a message from a recording engineer/mixer/producer to audiophiles wanting naturalistic recordings and realism. It does cover...

www.audiosciencereview.com

Cool. I've been reading it. Some very interesting stuff there.

 

[Inner Space]

I chose the entire system based on measurements here on ASR

Yet you "can't" listen to classical music on it? Now you're blaming ASR for that? Or are you so fantastically discriminating you encounter dealbreakers that we regular folk don't recognize? Please explain!

 

[Gorgonzola]

I get the impression at times that those who comment on how close to reality their system sounds have never heard a saxaphone being played in their listening space. No stereo system as you point out comes close.
It's why I can't listen to classical music on my stereo.

Well ... I listen to and enjoy Classical music everyday on my system. And I would describe my system as relative high accuracy/low distortion.

I'll say this: that there is a very large spread of sound quality amongst Classical recordings, (like most maybe). In m observation the best recordings sound best on a high accuracy system. (Before you ask, my criterion for "best recordings" are the ones that tend to sound very good regardless of the equipment used.)

But some Classical recordings are far from the best for that genre. Common faults include overly bright treble and/or harsh or strident treble, seemingly inaccurate instrument timbers, (I guess you agree with that one), muddy bass, poor instrument separation, and general lack of detail, transparency, or "air". I have heard various explanations for the problems, but the point is that recording quality is quite variable -- and yes, I agree with Aczel that recording quality is the foremost issue for sound quality.

 

[Shadrach]

There are recordings that are generally acknowledged to be good recordings. I'll pick a few out later and post the titles and the other information relevant information.
Try to bear in mind it's not about whether the music is good, whatever that means, it's wether the recording is considered good.
A bit of research should indicate that there is a consensus on what is and what isn't a good recording. The same recording tend to crop up on various forums.

 

[Shadrach]

Yet you "can't" listen to classical music on it? Now you're blaming ASR for that? Or are you so fantastically discriminating you encounter dealbreakers that we regular folk don't recognize? Please explain!

Take your fingers off the keyboard. Go and read the post and then think about what you've written.

 

[jhwalker]

Well ... I listen to and enjoy Classical music everyday on my system. And I would describe my system as relative high accuracy/low distortion.

I'll say this: that there is a very large spread of sound quality amongst Classical recordings, (like most maybe). In m observation the best recordings sound best on a high accuracy system. (Before you ask, my criterion for "best recordings" are the ones that tend to sound very good regardless of the equipment used.)

But some Classical recordings are far from the best for that genre. Common faults include overly bright treble and/or harsh or strident treble, seemingly inaccurate instrument timbers, (I guess you agree with that one), muddy bass, poor instrument separation, and general lack of detail, transparency, or "air". I have heard various explanations for the problems, but the point is that recording quality is quite variable -- and yes, I agree with Aczel that recording quality is the foremost issue for sound quality.

I've been listening to classical music for almost 50 years, from transistor radios, to boom boxes, to low-end stereo systems, to higher-end multichannel setups ... none of that had any impact whatsoever on my enjoyment of the music

Certainly, I enjoy my current level of technical reproduction, but I can enjoy music still from a transistor radio

 

[DanielT]

Why not strive to have both, good recordings and good replay equipment?

good replay equipment? Based on conditions and wallet, yes.

good recordings. Ideally, but not necessary. Prio 1 is the song itself, regardless of the quality of the recording. I listen and am happy anyway.

Also, what is a good or bad recording (regarding recording technique)? How to look at a recording made in the 30-40s?

Here are some old goodies:

Old pearls, songs made 1900-1950

What earrings, favorites, songs from that time do you have? Free choice. Choose from which music genre and style you want.:) I'm taking a classic. Good song plus it would be fun to go there again.:D

audiosciencereview.com

 

[Inner Space]

Go and read the post and then think about what you've written.

No, I'm thinking about what you wrote: "I can't listen to classical music on my stereo". Which followed something about a saxaphone (sic) being played in someone's listening space. Which seemed to imply that a generalized lack of realism in sound reproduction made it impossible for you to listen to classical music on your stereo. Is it only classical you can't listen to? Or only classical involving saxophones? Anything involving saxophones? Are there any instruments or genres you can listen to? Any degrees of un-realism you can tolerate? You started the discussion, and I think you owe us specificity.

 

[Katji]

But if, in general, you really don't much care whether your recordings sound good, then I submit you don't care about very much about SQ so why by spend many thousands on hi-fi equipment

The purpose is high-fidelity reproduction. !

What comes before that, [long story short] is you take it or leave it.

Whose arguing about that? Axzel merely said that the foremost contributor to good SQ was the recording: I agree.

You can not control the source [i.e. the recorded music product that is provided, "the goods." You take it or leave it.

Hi-fi i.e. high fidelity means the reproduction [of that source] with high fidelity [faithfulness].

The [perceived] quality/competence of the source is beside the point.
"You take it or leave it" means you buy it or don't buy it / download or do not download it / delete it or do not delete it / listen to it or do not listen to it.

 

[Katji]

Any degrees of un-realism you can tolerate?

The premise of the post itself is unrealistic.
That was my point - and I will spell.it.out. - With some reference to numbers - why i said "it's a numbers game."

 

[ex audiophile]

If we had a contest for the silliest, most useless thread this one would take the prize easily.

 

[Sokel]

There are recordings that are generally acknowledged to be good recordings. I'll pick a few out later and post the titles and the other information relevant information.
Try to bear in mind it's not about whether the music is good, whatever that means, it's wether the recording is considered good.
A bit of research should indicate that there is a consensus on what is and what isn't a good recording. The same recording tend to crop up on various forums.

Here you go:

Mozart – Requiem – Dunedin Consort

www.dunedin-consort.org.uk

You will be amazed in any system.Some things are beyond recordings,reproduction,etc.

 

[dc655321]

If we had a contest for the silliest, most useless thread this one would take the prize easily.

I dunno… there’s some stiff competition