are there differences in AVR surround sound/dsp capability through better ,,logic/processing''?

[Goldhamster916]

lets say you are you plaing a dolby atmos movie with two different avrs which have similar specs who support the same formats and same room correction software, do yous think there can be a difference in surround sound quality through better internal avr logic/dsp?

andrew robinson claims so in his sony AZ7000ES review:

form 4:30 onwards.
He specifically says that even when sonys 360 spatial mapping is disabled the 7000ES is better in creating believable surround sound compared to the marantz.

One possible explanation would be that the sony room correction process is thorough and you still benefit form it even if the 360 ,,upmixer'' is disabled.

but maybe not. I am really curious about his...what do yous think?

 

[peng]

lets say you are you plaing a dolby atmos movie with two different avrs which have similar specs who support the same formats and same room correction software, do yous think there can be a difference in surround sound quality through better internal avr logic/dsp?

andrew robinson claims so in his sony AZ7000ES review:

form 4:30 onwards.
He specifically says that even when sonys 360 spatial mapping is disabled the 7000ES is better in creating believable surround sound compared to the marantz.

One possible explanation would be that the sony room correction process is thorough and you still benefit form it even if the 360 ,,upmixer'' is disabled.

but maybe not. I am really curious about his...what do yous think?

Different reviewers said different thing. It is a) subjective, b) likely not exactly comparing things the same way, c) all done sighted, and all knew about the specs, marketing info, and what others might have said, e) whatever.. Such reviews don't mean a lot.

I found that my Anthem avm70 sound different than the Denon avr it replaced, that's for movies, but not really different for music, yet others said something quite different, some might have said something similar, or the opposite. I have not auditioned any Sony for years, I do trust they know what they are doing.

 

[techsamurai]

lets say you are you plaing a dolby atmos movie with two different avrs which have similar specs who support the same formats and same room correction software, do yous think there can be a difference in surround sound quality through better internal avr logic/dsp?

andrew robinson claims so in his sony AZ7000ES review:

form 4:30 onwards.
He specifically says that even when sonys 360 spatial mapping is disabled the 7000ES is better in creating believable surround sound compared to the marantz.

One possible explanation would be that the sony room correction process is thorough and you still benefit form it even if the 360 ,,upmixer'' is disabled.

but maybe not. I am really curious about his...what do yous think?

There's a video online of the Anthem AVM70 and the Trinnov Altitude 16 - they play demos with each one. Trinnov has similar processing to the Sony, although I have not heard both of them.


You can hear the difference especially in the swirling sound from speaker to speaker. The Anthem is more discrete meaning sound is more positional as opposed to surrounding you.

Shane Lee owns a Trinnov (they are ridiculously expensive) and reviewed the 7000ES.

 

[peng]

There's a video online of the Anthem AVM70 and the Trinnov Altitude 16 - they play demos with each one. Trinnov has similar processing to the Sony, although I have not heard both of them.


You can hear the difference especially in the swirling sound from speaker to speaker. The Anthem is more discrete meaning sound is more positional as opposed to surrounding you.

Shane Lee owns a Trinnov (they are ridiculously expensive) and reviewed the 7000ES.

Those guys rely on their subjective measurements, so what they said meant nothing to me, other than it's their opinions. They obviously have theirs fans and followers.

 

[Goldhamster916]

and are we sure they are calibrated wioth the same room correction sofware and in the same mode? if yes then it would indeed be a difference

 

[techsamurai]

Those guys rely on their subjective measurements, so what they said meant nothing to me, other than it's their opinions. They obviously have theirs fans and followers.

You can listen to the recordings of the Anthem and Trinnov.

 

[Goldhamster916]

let me prhase it different: lets say you are playing a dolby atmos movie with auro matic upmixing and you have two different receivers that support both formats and are calibrated exactly the same to the room with the same room correction software. would it be possible that you get a different result in sound stage/imaging/sound placement when they have the same power/dac specs?

your example would suggest yes if they have been calibrated wit the same software and same input data

 

[techsamurai]

let me prhase it different: lets say you are playing a dolby atmos movie with auro matic upmixing and you have two different receivers that support both formats and are calibrated exactly the same to the room with the same room correction software.

well, this is definitely a question that the folks who watch dolby atmos movies with auro matic upmixing are best qualified to answer.

would it be possible that you get a different result in sound stage/imaging/sound placement when they have the same power/dac specs?

Are you asking if you buy 2 Sony 5000ES AVRs and configure them the same way, will they sound the same?

Soundstage/imaging are more related to music - I don't think you'd be able to pick that out in a movie.

I put that under musicality and how I feel about the music. The other stuff is near impossible to tell in a movie unless you professionally record and do A/B testing.

 

[Goldhamster916]

thanks for the answers! i mean if you are using two different receiver models, like a denon x4800h and a sony az5000ES for example

 

[techsamurai]

thanks for the answers! i mean if you are using two different receiver models, like a denon x4800h and a sony az5000ES for example

Sony offers 360 Spatial Sound Mapping which is a new surround processing (well Trinnov does something similar)

It's kind of asking if an automatic is better than a manual? I'd love to try the Sony to see what it sounds like but I've no frame of reference other than word of mouth.

I think it also depends on what you're used to - if this is your first home theater, either will be more than amazing. Which one is the best one? I'm going to say it's the one that sounds the best and also is the easiest to set up but you're never going to know that until you try all of them.

I just came from a failed attempt to measure Dirac Live after 100+ speaker measurements and I'd bought a special calibrated Mic, a microphone stand, a 20 ft long USB cable and I was running the Dirac Live app on a Dell XPS that costs upwards of $2,000. On the other hand, I can do Audyssey calibrations using the archaic UI in my sleep.

Ultimately, you want to enjoy this so don't fret it - whatever you buy, just listen to it and see if you like it.

 

[Chrispy]

You can listen to the recordings of the Anthem and Trinnov.

What's the address? Or you mean watching some vague youtube video?

 

[Chrispy]

thanks for the answers! i mean if you are using two different receiver models, like a denon x4800h and a sony az5000ES for example

You're referring to just using the avrs in a direct mode to decode Atmos? Or are you folding in the different room eq programs? Hard to imagine Sony's DCAC being on same level as Audyssey or Dirac....

 

[techsamurai]

What's the address? Or you mean watching some vague youtube video?

He has binaural recordings - you can get a sense for the differences in surround sound.

 

[Chrispy]

He has binaural recordings - you can get a sense for the differences in surround sound.

Uh huh.

 

[techsamurai]

Uh huh.

I should probably warn you though. It may be subjective and you might form an opinion

Caveat Auditor!

 

[Chrispy]

I should probably warn you though. It may be subjective and you might form an opinion

Caveat Auditor!

Just a poor way to experience, let alone judge, audio. I can easily form opinions without watching videos for audio comparisons, tho....my basic opinion being such is a complete waste of time.

 

[kemmler3D]

would it be possible that you get a different result in sound stage/imaging/sound placement when they have the same power/dac specs?

Yes, absolutely. In fact you should expect them to sound different, assuming they are using different upmixing algorithms. They are altering the sound in a way that's intended to be audible, probably using different approaches. Different DSP algorithms are definitely one of those times when all gear does NOT sound the same.

If they are using the same algorithm, same DAC, same power, same format, then no you should not expect any real difference.

 

[LTig]

I think as long as the room eq calibration is not identical on both avrs frequency response is different and you rather compare the room eq settings than the amplifier sections.

 

[techsamurai]

Yes, absolutely. In fact you should expect them to sound different, assuming they are using different upmixing algorithms. They are altering the sound in a way that's intended to be audible, probably using different approaches. Different DSP algorithms are definitely one of those times when all gear does NOT sound the same.

If they are using the same algorithm, same DAC, same power, same format, then no you should not expect any real difference.

That's an interesting point because there are 3 high-end AVRs that are practically identical internally, namely:

Onkyo TX-RZ50
VSX-LX805
Integra 8.4

Visually, the main differences are the heatsink fins and the backpanel connectivity where some offer more XLR pre-outs.

I'm guessing they may use different DACs.

Does that mean they will sound identical?

 

[peng]

and are we sure they are calibrated wioth the same room correction sofware and in the same mode? if yes then it would indeed be a difference

That's my point too, they could sound different for sure, but that"s about it.