Are there any speakers that output sound essentially indistinguishable from a live performance?

[Senior NEET Engineer]

One hears descriptions of “being there” and also of the performer “being here.” I would much rather imagine I’m in the audience than imagine someone is in my small listening room. That’s a personal preference that others might not share, but the latter form of realism is uncomfortable for me.

I think "performer being here" is generally preferred, due to preference for first side wall reflections and early arriving specular reflections from rear wall.

 

[tuga]

One hears descriptions of “being there” and also of the performer “being here.” I would much rather imagine I’m in the audience than imagine someone is in my small listening room. That’s a personal preference that others might not share, but the latter form of realism is uncomfortable for me.

It depends first and foremost on how the recording was performed: as a general rule close-mic'ed studio recordings sound like "they're here", more distant minimally-mic'ed recordings of unamplified music in a natural acoustic environment sound like "being there".

 

[Kal Rubinson]

I think "performer being here" is generally preferred, due to preference for first side wall reflections and early arriving specular reflections from rear wall.

It depends first and foremost on how the recording was performed:

I think it depends on the music. It is hard to imagine the subjective experience of a successful reproduction of an entire symphony orchestra in my room and perceived as "being here." I think it would be terrifying and, if they were "here," I'd rather not be.

 

[mhardy6647]

I think it depends on the music. It is hard to imagine the subjective experience of a successful reproduction of an entire symphony orchestra in my room and perceived as "being here." I think it would be terrifying and, if they were "here," I'd rather not be.

sort of the aural equivalent of a clown car...

 

[Robin L]

well... short answer, no -- given the tweaking, compression, limiting, and sweetening that virtually all recorded music is subjected to (even "serious" music, which is sometimes generically, but - of course - inaccurately, called "classical" music).

That said, there is (was) this...

View attachment 70848
source: http://www.classicspeakerpages.net/...4/original_models_brochures/ar_brochure_1970/

AR famously conducted live vs. reproduced music demos that were (ostensibly) difficult to impossible to distinguish.
Probably an excellent can of worms in the context of this website and the OP's question!

Here's one 'modern' discussion, chosen more or less at random (i.e., high on the google list of results):
https://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=82842.0

Gotta say, all the Fine Arts Quartet recordings sounded muddy and compressed.

Just sayin'.

 

[Robin L]

I think it depends on the music. It is hard to imagine the subjective experience of a successful reproduction of an entire symphony orchestra in my room and perceived as "being here." I think it would be terrifying and, if they were "here," I'd rather not be.

"Where did all these extra chairs come from, and where do I put them once this is over?"

 

[Robin L]

It depends on the genre. Classical music recordings have wide dynamics, sometimes even true dynamics.

Compression in recordings of classical music begins with the microphone, and most "Classical Music" has some form of gain-riding and/or compression. Recordings of highly dynamic and uncompressed sound usually do not fit into domestic environments.

 

[tuga]

Compression in recordings of classical music begins with the microphone, and most "Classical Music" has some form of gain-riding and/or compression. Recordings of highly dynamic and uncompressed sound usually do not fit into domestic environments.

I have several uncompressed recordings from Telarc, BIS, Dorian, Denon, PlayClassics. They all fit my small room and are not particularly demanding on my 54 litre boxes with single 8" woofers.

 

[Snarfie]

The problem start i guess that probably 90% does not know what the in sound characther of a certain music instrument sounds like a Bosendorfer versus a Steinway piano an so on. Also knoledge how a reverberation of a certain venue sounds like Abbey Road studio 2 where lots of populair recodings are made. Basicly you can Measure what you want at the end if it is far from the true sound you go looking some where els. Could be the recording and/or speaker design despite ok measurments. It is in the in ear of the beholder. Met latest finding is that dsp can be decisive a flat frequency respons tot start with to normalise acoustics. Only than you can compare gear like speakers efficiently.

 

[Robin L]

I have several uncompressed recordings from Telarc, BIS, Dorian, Denon, PlayClassics. They all fit my small room and are not particularly demanding on my 54 litre boxes with single 8" woofers.

If the recordings are really of a wide dynamic [Mahler Symphonies as an example] and are played back at the intended volume as the performance the peaks will be too hot for small rooms or speakers.

 

[tuga]

If the recordings are really of a wide dynamic [Mahler Symphonies as an example] and are played back at the intended volume as the performance the peaks will be too hot for small rooms or speakers.

The intended volume is whatever the listener wants. If you mean at realistic levels then I agree that it will be too loud.

 

[Robin L]

The intended volume is whatever the listener wants. If you mean at realistic levels then I agree that it will be too loud.

And if something like Mahler's 3rd Symphony is playing, the bottom level of dynamics will be swallowed by ambient noise in the scenario you described. I've experienced that with a big system playing loud in an average sized room in a quiet neighborhood.

 

[tuga]

And if something like Mahler's 3rd Symphony is playing, the bottom level of dynamics will be swallowed by ambient noise in the scenario you described. I've experienced that with a big system playing loud in an average sized room in a quiet neighborhood.

I have tried many times to like Mahler but I'm just not able to. I have a few of his Symphonies but not the 3rd.
Can you suggest some other symphonic piece that you feel would be drowned by the room's noise floor at low listening levels?
When it comes to low-level resolution electronics are often the bottleneck...

 

[Robin L]

I have tried many times to like Mahler but I'm just not able to. I have a few of his Symphonies but not the 3rd.
Can you suggest some other symphonic piece that you feel would be drowned by the room's noise floor at low listening levels?
When it comes to low-level resolution electronics are often the bottleneck...

I used to have a direct to disc issue of the Boston Pops, typical programming, Capriccios Espagnol & Italiano. That had similar dynamics. BUT most recordings of those popular pieces are gain-ridden/compressed, like so many recordings of Classical music. The recording of Mahler I mentioned was a SACD, played it back in 5.1 surround. I know there's recordings of Mahler's 3rd that have the lowest dynamic levels increased to make playback more easily managed. I've owned some BIS recordings, had that same sort of problems with the low levels being too low if the peaks were reasonable in level.

Low-level resolution is not the problem with the lower end of dynamic scale, ambient noise is.

 

[Rja4000]

Compression in recordings of classical music begins with the microphone, and most "Classical Music" has some form of gain-riding and/or compression

Are we sure of that ?

Looking at this DPA microphone specs, as an example, they claim 124dB dynamic range.
And, anyway, I don't see why multiple microphones, set for different sensitivities, would not allow capturing even wider range, with minimal side effects.
(In a similar way that HDR is used to capture acwide dynamic range photo from multiple exposures)

 

[Robin L]

Are we sure of that ?

Looking at this DPA microphone specs, as an example, they claim 124dB dynamic range.
And, anyway, I don't see why multiple microphones, set for different sensitivities, would not allow capturing even wider range, with minimal side effects.
(In a similar way that HDR is used to capture acwide dynamic range photo from multiple exposures)

Anything with a diaphragm will slow down/limit dynamics. It's Zeno's paradox. The paradox of the marketplace insures that commercial recordings use compression in one form of another. The recordings that don't are few and don't sell compared to recordings that easily fit into a drawing room or a car stereo.

 

[Rja4000]

Anything with a diaphragm will slow down/limit dynamics. It's Zeno's paradox. The paradox of the marketplace insures that commercial recordings use compression in one form of another. The recordings that don't are few and don't sell compared to recordings that easily fit into a drawing room or a car stereo.

Not sure what you mean here.

As for market needs, that's obvious, and I spoke about it above.
But that's not a microphone limitation....

 

[Ivanovich]

Sometimes speakers produce the live performance, so, how can the answer to the thread title not be "yes"?

View attachment 70874

Caption Contest!

"Dammit! They're using speakers again!"

Or...

"$50 to see Queen and they aren't even using their own speakers?"

It’s not fair no one has captioned this yet.

Live Aid! - 13 July 1985

Yeah, but you’d need some really BIG speakers and lots of Watts to reproduce a band with drums, using electric instruments. And why would someone want to have to use hearing protection to listen to music in their home!

 

[Robin L]

Not sure what you mean here.

As for market needs, that's obvious, and I spoke about it above.
But that's not a microphone limitation....

Any physical object that has mass and is moved by air will have inertia. My experience is that all microphones place their audible stamp on the signal. I'm sure DPA microphones are about as good as it gets. But microphones are the current biggest bottleneck in audio recording, the electronic and digital aspects of the recording process easily exceed the limitations of the microphones. And, again, full dynamic range recordings do not sell, so there is no commercial potential for those kinds of recordings.

 

[Ivanovich]

Any physical object that has mass and is moved by air will have inertia. My experience is that all microphones place their audible stamp on the signal. I'm sure DPA microphones are about as good as it gets. But microphones are the current biggest bottleneck in audio recording, the electronic and digital aspects of the recording process easily exceed the limitations of the microphones. And, again, full dynamic range recordings do not sell, so there is no commercial potential for those kinds of recordings.

I don’t understand this business about mic limiting dynamic range (if I have this right). Some certainly do not and are made for exactly these applications.

Rock bands use close-mic’d drums, electric bass and guitar, horns, etc. They have no problem with the dynamic range and the “stamp” they put on the sound is often by design because the instrument either doesn’t need it or sounds better when mixed with other amplified instruments, like bass roll off or a little presence boost. Some can be quite flat though, depends on the application.

One of the most popular studio and live mics is the Shure SM57. I found this, and having recorded with this mic regularly, I believe it!

“On a practical level, there is virtually no limit to the high sound pressure levels (SPL) the SM57 can handle. That’s right, no sound is too loud for it. The first frequency range to distort is around 100Hz at 150dB SPL. That is louder than a jet engine. At 20kHz, the SM57 can theoretically handle around 190dB SPL. Don’t try this or you’ll become deaf!”
https://www.thebroadcastbridge.com/...hures-sm57-became-the-worlds-go-to-microphone