Any correlation between measurements and perceived sound quality?

[studio19atx]

I am new to this website and have been thoroughly enjoying reading the articles with the measurements posted by Amir. I get to see the labor and careful design behind some of the products to ensure extremely good measurements.

How much correlation do these measurements have with perceived sound quality?

I have listened to some class D amps that measure very well but tend to sound too sterile or dry. On the contrary some of the older Mark Levinson's Proceed gear I have sound amazing, but I am sure if measured they will have horrible numbers due to age etc.

Are there any studies that show these correlations?

I am curious to see what your thoughts are.

 

[solderdude]

I'll take a stab at it.

There is little to no correlation between sighted subjective found sound quality and measured aspects.
Acoustics is hard to measure and correlate on ALL aspects of sound.

There is correlation between blind tested equipment and measured performance below certain thresholds of audibility.
These thresholds vary between individuals and are also dependent on training of that individual.
When measured performance is beyond that which can be perceived in blind tests then no differences will be found in blind tests.
Those that do sighted subjective tests will almost always 'detect' differences even if arguably there aren't any.

There are those that believe blind tests are flawed and only long term familiarity with systems can give meaningful results.
When one has that opinion start worrying and read this post again.
If not... proceed with your life and enjoy the things one likes to do with a rest assured mind that your equipment may well be good enough.

 

[Dogen]

This is a topic that’s intrigued me, and I don’t think we have many answers. We know that second harmonic distortion can contribute to a “warm” sound, and higher order distortion to what some might call edginess or detail. Others know much more about this than I.

But really, with the state of audio science so advanced these days, at least for digital and amplification, a competent piece of gear need not have any audible problems to measure. If distortion and low and the gear matches its partners (e.g., an amp has enough power for the speakers) then differences are likely imaginary. If something sounds very different, it’s likely broken, badly designed or deliberately engineered to sound that way.

The most important variables in what we hear are 1) one’s state of mind, 2) the quality of the source, 3) the quality of the speakers, and 4) the interaction of the speakers and the room.

I don’t know how to explain what you experienced with the two amps, except that certain distortions can sound good on some recordings, and to some people, and that expectations and state of mind greatly color our perceptions.

 

[wiggum]

I am new to this website and have been thoroughly enjoying reading the articles with the measurements posted by Amir. I get to see the labor and careful design behind some of the products to ensure extremely good measurements.

How much correlation do these measurements have with perceived sound quality?

I have listened to some class D amps that measure very well but tend to sound too sterile or dry. On the contrary some of the older Mark Levinson's Proceed gear I have sound amazing, but I am sure if measured they will have horrible numbers due to age etc.

Are there any studies that show these correlations?

I am curious to see what your thoughts are.

There are plenty of studies published on the audibility of distortion. It would take you too much time & money(many are behind pay-walls) to read all of them. I have read the summaries of such papers. Here is what we know,

• We tolerate THD of 10 or 20% in the bass frequencies.
• THD at 1% and above gets annoying in the mid-range.
• THD below 1% is found to be audible in the treble range.
• IMD below 1% is audible and annoying.

Most modern amplifiers are very good and their THD,IMD are well below these figures and the distortion shouldn't affect the program material.

 

[March Audio]

I'll take a stab at it.

There is little to no correlation between sighted subjective found sound quality and measured aspects.
Acoustics is hard to measure and correlate on ALL aspects of sound.

There is correlation between blind tested equipment and measured performance below certain thresholds of audibility.
These thresholds vary between individuals and are also dependent on training of that individual.
When measured performance is beyond that which can be perceived in blind tests then no differences will be found in blind tests.
Those that do sighted subjective tests will almost always 'detect' differences even if arguably there aren't any.

There are those that believe blind tests are flawed and only long term familiarity with systems can give meaningful results.
When one has that opinion start worrying and read this post again.
If not... proceed with your life and enjoy the things one likes to do with a rest assured mind that your equipment may well be good enough.

Can you like a post twice?

 

[studio19atx]

Most modern amplifiers are very good and their THD,IMD are well below these figures and the distortion shouldn't affect the program material.

This is very interesting and I have found it to be true. The sound production does come down to voicing. Some amps I have sound better (to me) with same source and speakers. Why is it that there is over emphasis on numbers? Is it mainly to be an engineering marvel?

This thread started when I read this post https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/hardware-mods-the-ugly-story.3619/

I have heard to modwright modded oppo blu-ray players, they probably do not measure greatly but they definitely sound very good compared to non-modded. But again, this is all perception.

 

[restorer-john]

Can you like a post twice?

No. Each member may only attach one 'like' per post. Multiple 'likes' can be accrued and used for purchasing 'Amir Dollars' which can be exchanged for various Audio Precision devices, alcohol or hookers.

Alternatively, please contact the OP and request the content re-posted. You may then 'like' the new post.

If you have any further queries, please refer to our FARQ.

 

[tomelex]

Measurments are to identify how closely a signal stays pure as it moves through the stereo system. Measurements verify fidelity to the music signal.

And yes, if you like the "sound" of a particular amplifier when inserted in your system, it can be measured, and other amplifiers can be measured when placed in your system and the extent to which their harmonic spray correlates with your favorite amp then yes, we can say that you will like the new amp, and thus in that regard there can be correlation. Correlation between measurement and preference.

Example, if you like the sound of DHT amps, then we can find another one with the same or near same harmonic spray and you will like that one too.

See my signature.

 

[DonH56]

No. Each member may only attach one 'like' per post. Multiple 'likes' can be accrued and used for purchasing 'Amir Dollars' which can be exchanged for various Audio Precision devices, alcohol or hookers.

Alternatively, please contact the OP and request the content re-posted. You may then 'like' the new post.

If you have any further queries, please refer to our FARQ.

Please note John is jesting. Amir does not offer Audio Precision devices as rewards.

 

[studio19atx]

Measurments are to identify how closely a signal stays pure as it moves through the stereo system. Measurements verify fidelity to the music signal.

And yes, if you like the "sound" of a particular amplifier when inserted in your system, it can be measured, and other amplifiers can be measured when placed in your system and the extent to which their harmonic spray correlates with your favorite amp then yes, we can say that you will like the new amp, and thus in that regard there can be correlation. Correlation between measurement and preference.

Example, if you like the sound of DHT amps, then we can find another one with the same or near same harmonic spray and you will like that one too.

See my signature.

Thank you. Saw your signature and makes sense.

 

[studio19atx]

Please note John is jesting. Amir does not offer Audio Precision devices as rewards.

Are there any other ways to earn "Amir Dollars"?

 

[DonH56]

Are there any other ways to earn "Amir Dollars"?

You'd have to ask Sir Thomas. I don't want to know.

 

[Krunok]

You'd have to ask Sir Thomas.

LOOL

From now on I will always picture him something like this:

 

[DonH56]

King Amir and his loyal servant Sir Thomas. Makes perfect sense to me. I believe the jury's still out on whether Sir Thomas is a black knight or a white knight.

 

[SIY]

Example, if you like the sound of DHT amps, then we can find another one with the same or near same harmonic spray and you will like that one too.

I strongly suspect that there's more to the sound of DHTs than just the harmonic spray. Here's an easy experiment that I did some years ago: set up a DHT gain stage and don't connect anything to the input. Put a spectrum analyzer across the output. Now using a different amp, play some pink noise. Note what happens on the spectrum analyzer. A swept sine and an oscilloscope will give a less quantitative but equally enlightening result.

 

[Thomas savage]

LOOL

From now on I will always picture him something like this:

Umm, similar but I have more medals.

 

[Thomas savage]

King Amir and his loyal servant Sir Thomas. Makes perfect sense to me. I believe the jury's still out on whether Sir Thomas is a black knight or a white knight.

I’m a lord and that’s you need concern yourself with.

 

[Krunok]

I’m a lord and that’s you need concern yourself with.

 

[DonH56]

Wait, who's bed is that?

 

[Krunok]

Wait, who's bed is that?

While we, ignorant minions, sleep in ordinary beds, Lord Savage, law enforcer of this forum, sleeps in a bed like this.