Amplifiers with room correction: worth the cost or just a useless tech?

[marX]

By the way, I came across this amp on Amazon.

Technics SA-C600 Integrated Amplifier
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Technics-SA-C600-Integrated-Amplifier-Streamer-Black/dp/B09SJ3WWF3
60 watts and have a speaker location correction called "Space Tune™".
Any info on this?

 

[marX]

So, I went there and they had only the M16 in stock. The sales dude was like Revels need high-end equipment to shine and offered an Arcam SA10 + Revel M16 for a bit over £1000 quid.
I might go there next week with my DAC (a Topping NX4) and my laptop to test the combo with "my gear".

Now, is there any "better" combo other than those two according to you?

BTW, I saw that DIY-type amp by Audiophonics (Hypex 250W modules with an ESS DAC). Any idea how does this compare with the Arcam?
Also saw the DAC output of that amp is like 1V. So, how do integrate an active sub using it?

 

[marX]

There are some sales going on with eBay 15%.

For example an open box Cambridge Audio CXA61 for like £505.

 

[marX]

BTW, I'm conceding defeat in getting an amplifier with room acoustic correction idea as all of them are above my budget. The cheapest is the Yamaha 800A which is like £999.
There may be some used Arcam SA 30 but all of them are sold out as of now (or I can't find them).
I guess for now, I'm OK with using my PC for the time being.

The speaker is almost decided - Revel M16 or M106 unless someone recommends a different option.
The cost is around £590.


Amp is a different story. Here are some options I found.

1. AUDIOPHONICS DAW-S250NC Class D Integrated Amplifier (streamer version) - £655.51
2. AUDIOPHONICS DAW-S250NC Class D Integrated Amplifier - £515
3. Cambridge Audio CXA 61 - £505
4. Arcam SA10 - £425
5. Sabaj A30A - £350
6. ???

 

[dlaloum]

I started with roomperfect with its automatic correction. But it was not "perfect". Now i am measuring at my MLP (main listening position) and the results a near "perfect". I think that is the goal in home hifi.

Be careful with what you are measuring...

Ideally you want the direct sound reaching your ears at the MLP to be "flat"/neutral (in F/R terms)

But the overall "Room Curve" - should end up slightly tilted (more bass, less highs) - which is what is observed as the common end result in listening rooms that sound good - note that this is an observation... not a "target"

What happens with most RoomEQ, is that we set a target based on the latter ... the "Room Curve" or "Target Curve" - and we assume that our room is "average" and that the appropriate room curve will result in good sound.... but if the former "direct sound" isn't correct - the room curve could look good, and the result still not be any good!

For good imaging, we need to ensure that the reflections are sufficiently delayed to ensure they do not confuse the ear/brain - this requires distance of the reflecting surface from the speaker (so total path to ear is a meter or two longer...) - alternatively we try to absorb or diffuse the reflections.

It is possible to measure the direct sound along "in room" by using tools that time limit the signal - so as to capture the direct sound and filter out the reflections, but none of the standard tools RoomPerfect, Dirac, Audyssey - seem to provide such an option, it tends to be limited to manual tools such as REW.

Having said that - Dirac noticeably improved my imaging/midrange - even when I set it to match the native speaker curve - so as to minimise any EQ, but still allow impulse/phase correction.

 

[CapMan]

My understanding when using Acourate to define convolution filters is that windowing is used to focus corrections on the direct sound and to shape these corrections to a target which typically slopes down.

Health warning - I am no expert and just follow the recipe from @mitchco and his excellent book.

 

[SSS]

Hello guys!
So, I have finally managed to land a full-time job and can afford costlier amps now. I'm looking to buy the AE100 Bookshelf speakers to save space and a decent integrated amp (2.1 or 2.0 channels) to start my journey. But I have come across a lot of posts about Dirac Live and similar competing tech which applies the equaliser as per the room nodes to produce good-quality sound from most speakers.

Given the higher cost, do you guys think it is worth it?

Also, are there any DIY options available in the £1000 region?

Forget it. What the speaker is not able to do in bass Dirac Live will not make it better. Buy a bigger speaker.

 

[marX]

Forget it. What the speaker is not able to do in bass Dirac Live will not make it better. Buy a bigger speaker.

I would be adding a sub later. So, I guess I can get away with using a pair of bookshelf speakers for now.

 

[SSS]

I would be adding a sub later. So, I guess I can get away with using a pair of bookshelf speakers for now.

Makes sense.

 

[marX]

Also, my room is kind of small. The other thing is that I have a decent set of gear in my home country (I'm here for the studies and possibly a job) and spending big bucks here would not be a great idea as I would be returning home.

 

[marX]

Update: I ordered a HK Citation but cancelled the order after seeing the heating issues it had.

I'm now thinking of getting a great quality power/integrated amp and then using my PC or laptop as a source for the time being. The DAC I have is the Topping NX4.
As for room correction, I'm researching many things including a DSP addon board for Raspberry Pi. I would not buy anything soon though due to the high cost of an 'end game' amplifier eating into my budget.

I'm looking at this amp from Audiophonics. Hypex NCx 500.

AUDIOPHONICS LPA-S600NCX Power Amplifier Class D NCore NCx500 2x600W 4 Ohm - Audiophonics

We are proud to present the Audiophonics LPA-S600NCX, a Class D stereo power amplifier based on two NCore NCx500 modules.

www.audiophonics.fr

Is there any other 'better' and/or cheaper option in the UK for example?

 

[marX]

BTW, came across this

I'm wondering why not many are speaking about ICEpower modules.
Are they that bad?

 

[radix]

Update: I ordered a HK Citation but cancelled the order after seeing the heating issues it had.

I'm now thinking of getting a great quality power/integrated amp and then using my PC or laptop as a source for the time being. The DAC I have is the Topping NX4.
As for room correction, I'm researching many things including a DSP addon board for Raspberry Pi. I would not buy anything soon though due to the high cost of an 'end game' amplifier eating into my budget.

I'm looking at this amp from Audiophonics. Hypex NCx 500.

AUDIOPHONICS LPA-S600NCX Power Amplifier Class D NCore NCx500 2x600W 4 Ohm - Audiophonics

We are proud to present the Audiophonics LPA-S600NCX, a Class D stereo power amplifier based on two NCore NCx500 modules.

www.audiophonics.fr

Is there any other 'better' and/or cheaper option in the UK for example?

If you are going to play from your PC for now, then do room correction on the PC.

Hypex is a very good class D. So is Purifi. I have not seen a review of that specific model, the s600ncx, but it's using a hypex board, it should be just fine. Audiophonics has implemented other Hypex well. I still doubt you need that much power, though too much is better than too little. And if you ever change to 8-ohm speakers, it might be good to have the 500.

You are going to use the volume control on the NX4?

You could look at Nord Accoustics, e.g. their Hypex ncx500 version e.g. the older NC500 https://nordacoustics.co.uk/product/nord-one-value-line-nc500-st-power-amplifier/ or the NCX500 https://nordacoustics.co.uk/product/nord-one-ncx500st-power-amplifier/. That's 700W into 4-ohm (though I don't know if those are measured with the same THD as the Audiophonics). Nord is a UK company, and I think you were in the UK?

 

[marX]

If you are going to play from your PC for now, then do room correction on the PC.

Hypex is a very good class D. So is Purifi. I have not seen a review of that specific model, the s600ncx, but it's using a hypex board, it should be just fine. Audiophonics has implemented other Hypex well. I still doubt you need that much power, though too much is better than too little. And if you ever change to 8-ohm speakers, it might be good to have the 500.

You are going to use the volume control on the NX4?

You could look at Nord Accoustics, e.g. their Hypex ncx500 version e.g. the older NC500 https://nordacoustics.co.uk/product/nord-one-value-line-nc500-st-power-amplifier/ or the NCX500 https://nordacoustics.co.uk/product/nord-one-ncx500st-power-amplifier/. That's 700W into 4-ohm (though I don't know if those are measured with the same THD as the Audiophonics). Nord is a UK company, and I think you were in the UK?

The thing is that I cannot seem to find any 'great' quality low-power amps for this purpose and the Nilai 500 or the OEM version of it is pretty fantastic.

I'm gonna use the headphone-out of the NX4 as it has volume control. Not sure how much of a hit it might have on the signal quality.

Yes, I'm in the UK and have looked at the NCX offerings of theirs. Compared to Audiophonics and others, their pricing is a bit high.
But the EU amps don't charge any VAT and maybe upon delivery, the postal service might demand it. Not sure.

 

[radix]

The thing is that I cannot seem to find any 'great' quality low-power amps for this purpose and the Nilai 500 or the OEM version of it is pretty fantastic.

I'm gonna use the headphone-out of the NX4 as it has volume control. Not sure how much of a hit it might have on the signal quality.

Yes, I'm in the UK and have looked at the NCX offerings of theirs. Compared to Audiophonics and others, their pricing is a bit high.
But the EU amps don't charge any VAT and maybe upon delivery, the postal service might demand it. Not sure

Amir reviewed the NX4. It looks ok for use as line out -- the noise is great, but there's a little L/R imbalance. Just keep it on low gain.

I'm not an expert on all the different hypex and purifi amps. There's a lot of them. They should all perform about the same if they have the same chipset (e.g. ncx500 or nc252 etc.). There's not a lot for an integrator to muck with, apart from power supply and maybe input buffer and wiring topology. You could search ASR for recommendations on class D amps.

If you're willing to step down from the NCX500, there's a lot of lesser expensive options. The NCX500 is their flagship model, so it will be at a premium. The NC500 is still excellent, and then there's all the NCxMP, like the NC500MP or NC502MP (both are still 500W into 4-ohm). Those are all still very good amplifier modules.

Apollon is a European hypex/purifi/icepower amp manufacturer. I've heard very good things about their build quality, but they are not a budget brand.

There's also boXem, outlaw audio, buckeye, ati, and many more. You could look at the recommended amps at https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?pages/Reviews/.

I'm sure there's other threads with recommended class D amps.

 

[SSS]

BTW, came across this

I'm wondering why not many are speaking about ICEpower modules.
Are they that bad?

This video is absolutely meaningless beside that 3 guys have fun. Using only one pair of speakers does not give a clue what is with other more demanding speakers. Further it is necessary to use more different variaties of music. Sound through the microphone via youtube is anyway different from what the guys heard. So it is another video like many others in youtube by selfelected subjective audio specialists. Waste of time.

 

[marX]

Amir reviewed the NX4. It looks ok for use as line out -- the noise is great, but there's a little L/R imbalance. Just keep it on low gain.

I'm not an expert on all the different hypex and purifi amps. There's a lot of them. They should all perform about the same if they have the same chipset (e.g. ncx500 or nc252 etc.). There's not a lot for an integrator to muck with, apart from power supply and maybe input buffer and wiring topology. You could search ASR for recommendations on class D amps.

If you're willing to step down from the NCX500, there's a lot of lesser expensive options. The NCX500 is their flagship model, so it will be at a premium. The NC500 is still excellent, and then there's all the NCxMP, like the NC500MP or NC502MP (both are still 500W into 4-ohm). Those are all still very good amplifier modules.

Apollon is a European hypex/purifi/icepower amp manufacturer. I've heard very good things about their build quality, but they are not a budget brand.

There's also boXem, outlaw audio, buckeye, ati, and many more. You could look at the recommended amps at https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?pages/Reviews/.

I'm sure there's other threads with recommended class D amps.

Audiophonics' cheaper version of the NCX 500 amp module is actually the cheapest version out there but the SMPS (1200AS?) used is not the new one IIRC.
There might be some performance loss due to this but I guess still better than anything from the mass market brands.

 

[marX]

This video is absolutely meaningless beside that 3 guys have fun. Using only one pair of speakers does not give a clue what is with other more demanding speakers. Further it is necessary to use more different variaties of music. Sound through the microphone via youtube is anyway different from what the guys heard. So it is another video like many others in youtube by selfelected subjective audio specialists. Waste of time.

In the end, they discuss the measurements which are interesting.

 

[SSS]

In the end, they discuss the measurements which are interesting.

Due to the boring presentation I did not see the end. But also there it is not much on measurments. And talking in subjective terms without reference does not help. Amir does it much better.

 

[marX]

They do discuss a fair bit IMO but yeah, it can't be compared to Amir's.
Their's say the Nilai NCX 500 is the best compared to the others which I found interesting. I thought the Purify would perform 'better'.

Only Stereophile can match or better Amir's measurement quality I guess.