AMD Ryzen 7000 Series Discussion (With X670E Charts)

[Berwhale]

Another way of phrasing what those charts tell you is that PCIE 4 and PCIE 5 are largely datacenter techs at this point

Indeed, and CXL is where that starts to get interesting. CXL brings the potential to compose physical servers from components distributed across the DC. i.e. CXL will do to RAM, GFX and other accelerator cards (FPGA, AI, etc.) what SAN technology did for disks in servers.

More about CXL here: https://www.servethehome.com/compute-express-link-or-cxl-what-it-is-and-examples/

I don't expect to see this in the home anytime soon

 

[Berwhale]

How noticeable is this, as in seconds gained? I haven't paid much attention for the last 3 or so years, so I am out of the loop somewhat.

There's only a few seconds difference between a current SATA SSD and PCI-e 3.0 NVMe drive. There would be bigger difference with an older SSD that didn't max the SATAIII interface, but probably still not a huge difference in absolute time.

 

[bloodshoteyed]

meh, i think i'm gonna sit out the launch and stay on AM4 for a few more months, maybe until the first 3D models come out and opt out for a lower core count
been on the same HW for the most part for the last 4 years, except running the third CPU
damn happy with the 5700U in the HTPC, too

 

[pseudoid]

I think I understand @ThatF1Key primary topic was about the lack of dual (multiple?) M2-SSD ['bifurcation' thingy] PCIE support on the Intel Z690 CPU.
What would require you to have a need for TWO separate M2s running at such 'illegal' speeds?
I run a Win10P supported by a mixture of M2/SSD/HDD/USB/LAN internal/external drives on a 4U rack-mount Intel -i7K (@17% OC) for the last 5 yrs.

...In terms of NAS'ing, I was gonna do the old "Connect 2 PCs together via ethernet method" because I don't access my data from other devices on my main network. Also with the NAS'ing, my x8 slot currently has a x2 SATA card (to bypass the chipset) and let my chipset-connected M.2 and SATA SSDs reach there speeds. ...

Do you mean establishing a "Bridge" between multiple NICs/WiFi or just a simple local-area network?
Like your bifurcation needs, I also have a hang-up in my PC builds: The MoBo I select MUST have built-in dual-NICs (not as an add-on NIC card).

As with every soa PC build; stepping-up the PC' graphics subsystem also becomes mandatory.
I currently run matched 27" monitors (144Hz/1mS) and I am not convinced that they are ready to be swapped out for a single >32" monitor.
Same problem exists for my Radeon RX480 that has not reached its end-of-life yet but will require an upgrade... just because... I have already admitted to having hang-ups , including being an Intel CPU fanboy!
My next build price just neared the $2k range. ymmv

 

[bloodshoteyed]

My next build price just neared the $2k range. ymmv

i don't even want to play around with numbers anymore...
regarding monitors, went from 2x32" (1440p@144 both, or a 1440 + 4k) to a single 42" 4k 120hz oled soooo, i really might have to delay getting anything new soon....

 

[DonR]

https://www.tomshardware.com/news/amd-launches-zen-4-ryzen-7000

Arrives Sept. 27 Starting at $299​

X670 boards are coming out with CPUs and B650 a few weeks later.

 

[dlaloum]

As a heatsink case (fanless) user - I would like to see the power profile of the 7700 (rather than the 7700x) - typically 30W or 40W lower...

Good thing about this - there should be some bargains among the excellent AM4 CPU's....

 

[sweetchaos]

AMD has launched Ryzen 7000 2 hours ago.

AMD announcement video (30min):

List of announced CPUs:

Will require new socket AM5:

AMD last projected an 8 to 10% IPC gain over its Zen 3 but has now revised that figure to 13%.

Update: @DonR beat me to the news!

Update 2: I'm now waiting for Intel 13th gen (aka. Raptor Lake) *rumored* in Sep/Oct, to see who's going to be the winner...before actually thinking of purchasing any new hardware.

 

[ThatM1key]

I like how they claim a Ryzen 5 7600X can beat a i9 12900K. Reminds me when the i5 12400 (or was it the 12500) matched the i9 10900k.

For me, I would like to see a Ryzen 7 7700G. A good use-case example floating around the internet, is using the integrated graphics for recording gameplay while the GPU can focus more on rendering the game. In terms of motherboards, I'm still gonna get a X670E for that sweet (potentially have) bifurcation. Not gonna jinx myself, but even if it doesn't have bifurcation, at least I won't have to deal with LGA1700's socket issue that Intel will mostly likely not fix with 13th gen.

The thing that bugs me is that they didn't talk about X670E chipset bandwidth. Is it the same (X570's is PCIe 4.0 x4), matches Z690s (PCIe 4.0 x8) or maybe its PCIe 5.0+ (because of the dual chipset design). I'm guessing its probably gonna be like Z690's, which I am perfectly fine with that.

There is conflicting data going around the internet. Some says the CPUs have 24 lanes while others say 28 lanes, so its kind of hard to tell. I'm thinking its just 24 lanes due to the boards having only 1-CPU linked M.2 slot.

CPU lanes update:

As I'm writing this (Not gonna jinx myself), I think bifurcation is definitely gonna be a thing, judging by this picture:

If you were wondering what motherboard this is, its the MSI MEG X670E ACE. No USB4/TB4 on that specific motherboard but still looks pretty killer.

 

[sweetchaos]

Good overview by LLT:

 

[DonR]

Socket support to 2025 makes this another AM4. Intel really needs to up their game in that department and start supporting at least 3 generations per socket.

 

[Digby]

Socket support to 2025 makes this another AM4. Intel really needs to up their game in that department and start supporting at least 3 generations per socket.

Do many of you change CPUs and not the motherboard? To return to what I said earlier, I usually wait about 5 years and swap out both, the advances being made in that time being significant enough to warrant change of both.

I wonder how many swap new processors onto older boards. Performance gains over a few generations (on like for like processors) have been relatively small recently.

 

[DonR]

Performance gains over a few generations (on like for like processors) have been relatively small recently.

Absolutely not. Zen 1 (Ryzen 5 1600X) -> Zen 3 (Ryzen 5 5600X) had incredible gains. over 60% in single core and 80% in multicore. It also allows you to move from a 6-core CPU to a 16-core CPU should your requirements change (and assuming you bought the right MB to begin with).

 

[Digby]

I take your point, I did say 'like for like' though.

Did $150 Zen 3 CPU really buy you much more performance than $150 Zen 1, (edit: I can see that it did, is this unusual? I remember waiting forever for CPUs to noticeably best my i7-2600K). Still why hobble it with an older board?

I wonder how many people actually do what you say and just change the CPU, compared to swapping CPU & motherboard at the same time? I bet it is a small percentage of users.

 

[DonR]

I take your point, I did say 'like for like' though.

Did $150 Zen 3 CPU really buy you much more performance than $150 Zen 1, and if it does, why hobble it with an older board?

I wonder how many people actually do what you say and just change the CPU, compared to swapping CPU & motherboard at the same time? I bet it is a small percentage of users.

The 1600X to the 5600X is like for like as both are 6-core/12 thread CPUs. The board won't affect performance significantly. It is mostly a features/power thing and if you are into PCIE NVME drives. I personally have known at least 6 people that have swapped Zen 1 for Zen 2 or 3 (most skipped Zen+) out of about 20 but that is in amongst the enthusiast camp. Costs are difficult to pin down because of inflation so I would be hesitant to judge it on price but a $180 5600 will probably hold those figures vs a $150 1600. We are also starting to see some specialization in processors like the 5800X3D which promises double digit percentage gains in some applications.

 

[Digby]

How long would you trust running one motherboard for? Say you wanted the same board in 7 years time, it will only be available used. How long do you typically expect one to last? I can just see myself inviting trouble by pushing it too far (I'm not usually one for the latest features, at least in recent years). This is more of a concern for me than features (board availability/hassle from downtime).

BTW see edit to previous post above.

 

[DonR]

How long would you trust running one motherboard for? Say you wanted the same board in 7 years time, it will only be available used. How long do you typically expect one to last? I can just see myself inviting trouble by pushing it too far (I'm not usually one for the latest features, at least in recent years). This is more of a concern for me than features (board availability/hassle from downtime).

BTW see edit to previous post above.

My Z77 is 10 years old and still fully operational as is the 11 yr old 2500K sitting in it. My use case doesn't demand an upgrade. If your MB dies you have 5 years of motherboards to choose from in the case of AM4. Certainly better supply than Intel. In AM4's case, everything but the lowest tier A series was decent. Intel had some fairly crap chipsets that just seemed to get worse as time moved on.

 

[Digby]

My Z77 is 10 years old and still fully operational as is the 11 yr old 2500K sitting in it. My use case doesn't demand an upgrade.

Presumably this isn't a mission critical/main PC. I should have mentioned when used as a main PC.

 

[DonR]

Presumably this isn't a mission critical/main PC. I should have mentioned when used as a main PC.

It's my desktop but I have a laptop and tablet as a backup as well as some older salvaged spare parts including an H67 MB.

 

[Digby]

Interesting, so presumably you are going without a fair bit of more modern technology, maybe some of your other equipment is more modern. Like you say, if you don't have a use for the new features, then it is immaterial if something is newer. I am always concerned (perhaps unduly) about something giving up the ghost and prefer to consolidate into a few devices as possible, but to each his own. It is nice that people can find a use for and stop older stuff becoming e-waste unnecessarily. My approach is I try to sell it on when it still has value, perhaps a PC version of carbon offsetting?