Am I experiencing listener fatigue?

[Rit]

Good day, love this site.
Im building a small 2.1 system and believe i am experiencing listener fatigue, at least the way I understand it. Equipment at hand, Yamaha AVR and OPPO dvd player both from 90's and new Arendal 1961 bookshelf speakers. Sounds ok, loud is not an issue, but after a while it seems bright and i just have to lower the volume. Initially i just thought it was the old DAC in receiver, switched things around to use the DAC in the OPPO, better but. So put in a new DAC from SMSL, the depth and darkness of the soundstage is stunning. I really enjoy the details in music like never before. Still listening at high volume but fatigued still affecting me after longer sessions.
So my thoughts are to purchase the Buckeye Integrated with the Purify modules when they come out. Could I just be listening at high volume on the Yamaha (85db) just to get into the depth of the music? Is it to much distortion? Or is it all in my head?

 

[antcollinet]

Good day, love this site.
Im building a small 2.1 system and believe i am experiencing listener fatigue, at least the way I understand it. Equipment at hand, Yamaha AVR and OPPO dvd player both from 90's and new Arendal 1961 bookshelf speakers. Sounds ok, loud is not an issue, but after a while it seems bright and i just have to lower the volume. Initially i just thought it was the old DAC in receiver, switched things around to use the DAC in the OPPO, better but. So put in a new DAC from SMSL, the depth and darkness of the soundstage is stunning. I really enjoy the details in music like never before. Still listening at high volume but fatigued still affecting me after longer sessions.
So my thoughts are to purchase the Buckeye Integrated with the Purify modules when they come out. Could I just be listening at high volume on the Yamaha (85db) just to get into the depth of the music? Is it to much distortion? Or is it all in my head?

Listener fatigue is IMO nearly always in room frequency response. Swapping electronics doesn't help with this - it is about speakers, and the way they interact with the room.

Options:
1 - If your AVR has tone controls - have a play with that, especially reducing treble.
2 - Play around with speaker positioning - see if you can improve the response that way.
3 - (best) Get a measurement mic and measure your system response with REW to find out what is going on with the frequency response.
4 - Loud on it's own can be fatiguing. Just accept that you can't listen loud long term.

 

[Rit]

Listener fatigue is IMO nearly always in room frequency response. Swapping electronics doesn't help with this - it is about speakers, and the way they interact with the room.

Options:
1 - If your AVR has tone controls - have a play with that, especially reducing treble.
2 - Play around with speaker positioning - see if you can improve the response that way.
3 - (best) Get a measurement mic and measure your system response with REW to find out what is going on with the frequency response.
4 - Loud on it's own can be fatiguing. Just accept that you can't listen loud long term.

Thank you, I have started the learning process on room correction.

 

[Multicore]

Listener fatigue is IMO nearly always in room frequency response

That's just what I was thinking too.

When we got good speakers the improved comfort was the really big difference. Then when we got the MiniDSP and set it up with REW and a UMIK the feeling of comfort was really pleasing.

Now we listen to music, movies, TV at whatever level makes sense and it's fine. No need to ride the volume control to boost the quieter bits to better hear the detail or for intelligibility and quiet the loud parts.

This has been really what made it worth the effort and expense.

 

[MAB]

Arendal typically measure slightly bright. For instance:

The few models I heard didn't sound bright to me, but I heard them in a large treated room and the speakers were EQed. And it sounded great.

Amir used EQ on the treble on both of the above models. I think your Arendals will sound great with EQ to slightly tame the treble.

 

[Holmz]

... Still listening at high volume but fatigued still affecting me after longer sessions.
…

How long until the fatigue comes on?

 

[Rit]

How long until the fatigue comes on?

It varies but over two hours.

 

[Rit]

That's just what I was thinking too.

When we got good speakers the improved comfort was the really big difference. Then when we got the MiniDSP and set it up with REW and a UMIK the feeling of comfort was really pleasing.

Now we listen to music, movies, TV at whatever level makes sense and it's fine. No need to ride the volume control to boost the quieter bits to better hear the detail or for intelligibility and quiet the loud parts.

This has been really what made it worth the effort and expense.

A lot to learn here.

 

[Chrispy]

Weird descriptions of what you considered the dac doing. Even if the speakers run a bit bright, eq should be able to help out. Your speakers and your room are much more likely the difference rather than a dac. So I tend to think it's in your head otherwise.

 

[Rit]

Weird descriptions of what you considered the dac doing. Even if the speakers run a bit bright, eq should be able to help out. Your speakers and your room are much more likely the difference rather than a dac. So I tend to think it's in your head otherwiseYeah the DAC was a surprise

 

[Chrispy]

A surprise how? What did you do to make sure it was the dac?

 

[Rit]

I cant explain why i heard a huge difference in the DAC other then to say these are late 90's products.

 

[Chrispy]

I cant explain why i heard a huge difference in the DAC other then to say these are late 90's products.

Still more likely your comparison/testing method than the dac itself.

 

[majingotan]

A surprise how? What did you do to make sure it was the dac?

In audiophilia, DACs are always blamed as the culprit of listener fatigue

 

[MAB]

I cant explain why i heard a huge difference in the DAC other then to say these are late 90's products.

I have an Adcom DAC from the ‘90s. It sounds great. Very few DAC or CD players actually have a sound, and even less have a fatiguing sound.

 

[Rit]

Arendal typically measure slightly bright. For instance:
View attachment 383231

View attachment 383230

The few models I heard didn't sound bright to me, but I heard them in a large treated room and the speakers were EQed. And it sounded great.

Amir used EQ on the treble on both of the above models. I think your Arendals will sound great with EQ to slightly tame the treble.

 

[Rit]

It appears the CEA2034 from Erin are different?

 

[Rit]

Still more likely your comparison/testing method than the dac itself.

Probably.

 

[Chrispy]

Probably.

Or what you've been reading on audiofool sites/blogs/mags.

 

[DVDdoug]

Fatigue is psychological, so who knows?

but after a while it seems bright and i just have to lower the volume.

Bad sound (including excess bass or highs) can be fatiguing but frequently the opposite happens. It might sound bright when you first start listening or when you first switch from "A" to "B", and then your ears tend to adapt. Or sometimes you boost the bass or treble and it sounds better, then you boost a little more... And then you come-back the next day and it you realize you've over-done it. Many years ago I was repairing a car stereo that had distortion. After awhile I wasn't sure if I was still hearing the distortion and I thought maybe I'd fixed it. I had to listen to something that wasn't broken to "reset" my brain and then I could hear the distortion again.... It was a weird experience and that's why I still remember it.

...It's NOT the DAC. If it's not broken you won't hear any difference in a proper blind ABX test? not would you find a difference in a controlled blind "fatigue test."

In fact, MOST modern electronics are transparent with no particular sound unless you are over-driving an amplifier into distortion, or something like that. Except all analog electronics generate some noise (hum, hiss, or whine in the background) and sometimes the noise is audible, and if it's audible of course some equipment is worse than others.