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AKM new flagship AK4191 + AK4499EX

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KoiHime said:
:facepalm:sad face for me - I just purchased E70 L70 stack a week ago... for sure, I can't tell the difference between these two dac chip, but I'm curious about how "Valvet" it sounds.
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I mentioned for me the AKM dac is my favorite. I’ve heard them all. Implementation is key so you can’t truly says.

But to break it down in my perspective it’s like this:

Burr Brown/TI warm/dark spectrum absolutely not edgy/digital/sib

AKM same but toned down warmth and much more details are present vs BB. Sound gets sharper basically

CS chip is neutral with more detail present going towards ESS’s sharpest sound. I think I need to hear more CS chips, to give a conclusive result

ESS is basically ultra detail oriented and what some may consider as bright. Super clear and transparent. Also probably the least musical/warm/dark of the dacs.

I’ve been interested in the x26 pro but it’s pretty pricey and I love my D70s which has two 4497’s. Also the Monolith AC Liquid Platinum which uses the 4499

I’ve had 3 ess dacs and I did not like two of them absolutely. Too crisp for me, my Volumio primo has one and it sounds quite pleasant honestly. I stream direct from its internal dac quite a bit
 
MacCali said:
I mentioned for me the AKM dac is my favorite. I’ve heard them all. Implementation is key so you can’t truly says.

But to break it down in my perspective it’s like this:

Burr Brown/TI warm/dark spectrum absolutely not edgy/digital/sib

AKM same but toned down warmth and much more details are present vs BB. Sound gets sharper basically

CS chip is neutral with more detail present going towards ESS’s sharpest sound. I think I need to hear more CS chips, to give a conclusive result

ESS is basically ultra detail oriented and what some may consider as bright. Super clear and transparent. Also probably the least musical/warm/dark of the dacs.

I’ve been interested in the x26 pro but it’s pretty pricey and I love my D70s which has two 4497’s. Also the Monolith AC Liquid Platinum which uses the 4499

I’ve had 3 ess dacs and I did not like two of them absolutely. Too crisp for me, my Volumio primo has one and it sounds quite pleasant honestly. I stream direct from its internal dac quite a bit
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I very much appreciate the detailed information!
 
I liked my D400EX a lot, but the left channel stopped working suddenly. It's being returned to Apos Audio for refund. SMSL's QC reputation isn't the best, so I'm bit leery about buying another one. The Gustard A26 looks great, but I ain't about to drop $1500 for it. This new Topping definitely has my interest. No idea if there's a major sound difference between dacs with a single 4499EX compared to dual 4499EX. I'll order an E70 from Apos once my refund is issued.
 
MacCali said:
ESS is basically ultra detail oriented and what some may consider as bright. Super clear and transparent. Also probably the least musical/warm/dark of the dacs.
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My last 2 DACs were ESS Q2M series based so not even the expensive 'Pro' chips and I really don't hear the least 'musical/warm' thing you say... I remain sceptical. My CS(Cirrus Logic) basic macbook and meizu dongle don't really sound different from it either. Just 'good'. Lol.

My Audial TDA1541 DAC sounds darker/rolled off but that's because it has very little filtering as a design choice. It's based on an old 16-bit converter. Any proper designed DAC should not sound drastically different from another. I would say 'IMO' but it's hardly an opinion, it's also what the science around D/A conversion would dictate.. :p
 
Veri said:
Found it thanks! https://shenzhenaudio.com/collectio...-support-dsd512-pcm768khz-decoding-e70-velvet
Makes the E70V-A70 stack pretty tempting for people in the market right now, I guess :D
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Looks like @WolfX-700 already measured it too!

www.l7audiolab.com

Measurements of Topping E70 VELVET DAC - L7Audiolab

台式设备 随着"三小强"中SMSL和Gustard都推出了自己的4499EX解码器，拓品的研发总让我感觉是不是有点滞后？不过随着我拿到这台 Topping E70 VELVET 我打消了疑虑，拓品还是他家的老样子……
www.l7audiolab.com www.l7audiolab.com
 
Veri said:
My last 2 DACs were ESS Q2M series based so not even the expensive 'Pro' chips and I really don't hear the least 'musical/warm' thing you say... I remain sceptical. My CS(Cirrus Logic) basic macbook and meizu dongle don't really sound different from it either. Just 'good'. Lol.

My Audial TDA1541 DAC sounds darker/rolled off but that's because it has very little filtering as a design choice. It's based on an old 16-bit converter. Any proper designed DAC should not sound drastically different from another. I would say 'IMO' but it's hardly an opinion, it's also what the science around D/A conversion would dictate.. :p
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I feel you, your audio chain may have influence on it. Just equally as my results. I do not feel it's drastic, I just hear a difference.

I've had the 4490, 93, 93eq, 97, and 99og. Prior to these guys my favorite dac was a BB which I had 3 of prior to hearing AKM.

I know we are in a consistent notion that dacs do not have a sound, but I personally do not see that. I know I am applying all these words, but it's basically musical or analytical and it depends how far on the spectrum a product is. That's why I wanted to state this is in my opinion, nothing that is pure fact.

But at the same time, while mentioning the chain, you cant have everything on the dark side/musical and expect it to sound good. That's when you create mudy bass and super dull sound. In my chain the D70s + my parasound amps which are biased into class A + neutral speakers sounded good. However not as good as when I dropped the Pre90 into the chain which is a much more analytical sounding unit. Which to me was a balance into the whole thing

Also, when I first got my pre90 using the very same equipment mentioned man that thing was so bright. It took about 72 hours of burn in to kill that sound, it sounded extremely sharp to me and aggressively forward.

I know burn in itself is a controversial topic, but I definitely experienced it with that unit especially.
 
Now we have 2 implementations of the new AKM chipset and see a Hump. So, no technical competition to Ess anymore?
 
BR52 said:
Now we have 2 implementations of the new AKM chipset and see a Hump. So, no technical competition to Ess anymore?
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Maybe it's only so apparent because the noise floor is so low...?
 
Veri said:
Maybe it's only so apparent because the noise floor is so low...?
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Sure, a low noise floor makes it more visible, but the situation with a similar floor seems to be more or less solved in some ESS implementations. The I/V section is still not easy to design.
 
Soria Moria said:
There is no music even close to anything like this as far as I'm aware, so what's the point?
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Almost all CD players and DACs up- or over-sample, often to the maximum admissible rate. Benchmark is an exception, (currently) choosing to up- or down-convert everything to 211kHz
You are missing the point.
 
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BR52 said:
Now we have 2 implementations of the new AKM chipset and see a Hump. So, no technical competition to Ess anymore?
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I do not see a hump on the Gustard unit. Honestly though, not sure if this is factorable, but at this level of performance with sinad is that even a factor? isn't the hump a product of distortion or noise, not sure which, but clearly none of it should be audible or maybe it is.

https://www.ap.com/technical-library/imd/ still could not get a precise understanding from this

Not getting much information for SMPTE either o.o
 
MacCali said:
I do not see a hump on the Gustard unit. Honestly though, not sure if this is factorable, but at this level of performance with sinad is that even a factor? isn't the hump a product of distortion or noise, not sure which, but clearly none of it should be audible or maybe it is.

https://www.ap.com/technical-library/imd/ still could not get a precise understanding from this

Not getting much information for SMPTE either o.o
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post#30
"Also, when I first got my pre90 using the very same equipment mentioned, man that thing was so bright. It took about 72 hours of burn in to kill that sound, it sounded extremely sharp to me and aggressively forward."

I would recommend you spend 72 hours to "burn in" (learn) about IMD. Google and search here in the forum can be really helpfull.:)
 
Burn in intermodulation distortion..? o_O
 
I don’t think we should spread fud/myths about different chips sounding remarkably different . Implementation is everything if the chips are of recent vintage not some relic of the 80’s or 90’s ?

Well built modern DAC’s exceeded our human capabilities long ago . Possibly exception is if you are young enough for excellent hf hearing then the weirdest filter choices with roll off on the top and ultrasonic leakage migth sound different to you .

Please don’t attribute texture detail or soundstage to a DAC , if such words cary any meaningful information it’s about the recordings
 
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