Advice on Audiophilia Nervosa w DDRC24

[HomeStereo]

Hello everyone,

I’m a relative beginner in the HiFi space and I had a question about upgrading my DDRC-24 w an external DAC like the Motu M4 (which is the max for my budget at the moment).

Looking through the charts and measurement data I’m still struggling to answer the canonical question - will an external DAC actually audibly improve my sound quality over the DDRC-24?

Yes the Motu M4 measures better but is the extra 300 bucks going to change my listening experience?

 

[Rednaxela]

What makes you feel your DDRC-24 is currently the sound quality bottleneck in your system?

 

[mdsimon2]

Depends on what you mean by better sound quality.

The M4 has lower noise than the DDRC-24, so if you have audible noise issues it may help. Although, the M4 is not exceptionally low noise in the grand scheme of things.

It also has higher output voltage, so may give you more flexibility in terms of output, especially after DSP.

And of course, it has balanced outputs so if you have ground loops that will help.

Other than that, I don't see a reason for audible differences.

Michael

 

[HomeStereo]

I guess what I’m struggling w is muddy mids and a lack of clarity in the output - again ima beginner so I may be conflating 2 issues. I was under the impression that a higher resolution DAC w lower distortion may lead to better signal output in the mid frequency range

 

[Rednaxela]

Could it also be your speakers?

 

[HomeStereo]

It could - I swapped my Q3020i out for Wharfedale 12.2s (best I can do in my budget) if having the same issue I guess I could pool the wharfedale+DAC budget

I guess the question would be at what point could I then say ok it’s not my speakers it’s def my DAC?

 

[Rednaxela]

The 12.1 seems to have a(n intentional) midrange dip. Yours too perhaps? Maybe there’s a link with the muddiness you perceive? Just thinking out loud.

Hi,
it's not Peter and now Karl-Heinz, it's Peter and KH. We both already worked together in MISSION and I did already some projects in the past. I did not read everything in this thread (but will do), but I can tell you that we did the dip on purpose. Would have been easy to make it flat, but my ear would bleed during the listening test. .

 

[HomeStereo]

i see - pardon the dumb Q - is that dip fixable via Peq? Additionally given the directivity errors for the 12.1 I’m assuming fine tweaking of position and angling will do far more for me than a new DAC?

 

[kemmler3D]

at what point could I then say ok it’s not my speakers it’s def my DAC?

This basically never happens.

If you're hearing lack of clarity and midrange problems, 99.99% of the time it's going to be the room acoustics and/or speakers before anything is wrong with the DAC.

If a problem exists at the DAC it's more likely to be a conflict with the source than the DAC itself.

Very rarely, the DAC breaks in a weird way and causes sound quality issues without just failing completely.

Some ultra-ultra-ultra cheap DACs or bizarre boutique ones can have sound signatures by implementing things "creatively", but by the nature of a DAC, it's hard for it to have much of a sound signature at all.

is that dip fixable via Peq? Additionally given the directivity errors for the 12.1 I’m assuming fine tweaking of position and angling will do far more for me than a new DAC?

More on the right track here, for sure. Not a dumb question at all. PEQ can help a bit, but when the directivity isn't super smooth, it can also make things worse. You should probably start by tweaking position / angle first and then maybe take a very light touch with PEQ. Only use really wide filters if you're working above ~400hz.

PS Welcome to ASR! You're asking the right questions.

In general there's a lot of talk on most sites about how different DACs sound. Bottom line, those differences tend to mysteriously disappear in blind testing... a DAC is generally just a machine that turns numbers into voltages... if it does anything else, something went wrong.

 

[HomeStereo]

Thank you for saving me 300 dollars. What is the rational for using wide filters above 400 hz? Is it just to create a smoother response as appoint of pinpoint corrections? And what do you consider a “wide Q”

 

[kemmler3D]

Thank you for saving me 300 dollars. What is the rational for using wide filters above 400 hz? Is it just to create a smoother response as appoint of pinpoint corrections? And what do you consider a “wide Q”

In general if you do narrow corrections above the Schroeder Frequency (which is determined by the size of your room), you end up with an improvement in one place, and a worse problem in another place.

At the extremes, you will only get good FR exactly on-axis, hence the term "head in a vise".

But, if you do wider changes, the negative impact of varying off-axis FR (i.e. uneven directivity) is smaller.

The Schroeder Frequency matters because it determines the transition between the wavelengths building up throughout the room with less regard for speaker position, vs. having varying peaks and dips throughout the volume depending on where the speaker is... I think. I may be explaining this wrong. But for normal sized rooms, the transition is in the 300-400ish Hz. range. Below it, you can tweak the FR and get reliable improvements.

 

[Rednaxela]

i see - pardon the dumb Q - is that dip fixable via Peq?

See here an example of a measurements informed PEQ for the 12.1, leading to a somewhat more text book behaviour. Different speakers and no guarantee you’d subjectively like the result better. But definitely worth exploring with your 12.2’s.

Could you perhaps share some in-room measurements here?

 

[HomeStereo]

Yes absolutely and thank you so much! - I’m currently in the process of patching my cieling after blowing a hole in it w a Ramset while trying to mount an acoustic panel (heh) so I’ve boxed away all the important electronics for the moment - my plan is it set everything back up once the panels are in and take measurements by tomorrow (before my wife arrives and murders me)