A Newbie Could Use Your Help to Pick a Receiver for a High End Setup

[Ijk5565]

Hi Everyone,

We recently purchased a home that included a rather dated but what I believe to be very high end home theatre setup. It includes a Linn Kisto Receiver (looks to be about 15 years old), 4 Linn AV 5125 Amps (2 fronts are triamped, C is biampted, rest single amped) in a 7.1 setup.

The issue we are running into is that Linn Kisto Receiver is breaking (front display is non responsive and lacks the connectivity and features we want (HDMI, HDR, 4K etc) so I'm looking to replace it. That being said, from what I can tell, we've inherited some pretty high end hardware and I'd like to get the most I can out of this home theatre setup. That's where I'm hoping you guys can help.

I am currently looking at the Denon 3700h, the 4700h and the 6700h (based on my research here) as well as the marantz 6015 (although my research seems to suggest I should go Denon). My question for you guys is:

1. Given that my speakers are triamped, are there any additional considerations I should be taking into account aside from the number of preouts?

2. Given that all of my speakers are amped, will I notice any real difference between the 3700h and the 6700h?

3. Does anyone have any other comments or recommendations? I'm rather open minded and I'd love your input to get the most out of this setup.

Thank you all in advance for your time!

 

[Chrispy]

Your speakers are what? Can't imagine your Linn actually handles active bi/tri-amping.

 

[Cahudson42]

Can't imagine your Linn actually handles active bi/tri-amping

Maybe helpful, amir has actually reviewed the av,5125:
https://audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/linn-av5125-5-channel-amplifier-review.13902/

Knowing how these are fed from the Receiver should help with better suggestions.

For my part, the 3700h sounds like a good start. Then what? Several miniDSP/DSP-408 for all the amping?

Linn Kisto back. Wow.. Maybe best to find another one Used?

Edit: It looks like the Kabers may be either single. Bi, or Tri- amped. At least from this review: https://www.tersaudio.com/linn-kaber-ls500-review/
But best to find the manual - see if passive or active xo. Go from there..

 

[Ijk5565]

Your speakers are what? Can't imagine your Linn actually handles active bi/tri-amping.

The speakers are:

1. FL and FR are Linn Kaber Tower Speakers (triamped)

2. C is a Linn Ekwal (Bi-amped)

3. Subwoofer is a B&W ASW3000

4. Remaining speakers are Linn bookshelf speakers

From what I can tell they are wired as a triamp/biamp, but I can't exactly confirm due to how complicated the wiring is in this system. It looks like each speaker is connected to 3 separate amps.

Hope that helps.

 

[Ijk5565]

Maybe helpful, amir has actually reviewed the av,5125:
https://audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/linn-av5125-5-channel-amplifier-review.13902/

Knowing how these are fed from the Receiver should help with better suggestions.

For my part, the 3700h sounds like a good start. Then what? Several miniDSP/DSP-408 for all the amping?

Linn Kisto back. Wow.. Maybe best to find another one Used?

View attachment 101295

Thank you for your response and the link to the review of the amps.

I am attaching my own photo of the back of the Kisto which hopefully should help you see how things are connected. From what I can see, each channel is connected to one preout (FL FR, BL, BR, SL, SR, C, Sub).

There is one confusing thing about the wiring I can't make sense of. The amps that are triamped seem to be connected to eachother. Is that normal?

 

[Cahudson42]

The amps that are triamped seem to be connected to eachother. Is that normal?

Let's trace back from one triamped speaker. Does it end up using 3 channels on one 5125? Then are the 3 channels daisy-chained with short RCA jumper cables, the 1st output to the 2nd input etc?

This would indicate full frequency provision from the Amp channels to each transducer input, with xo internal to the speaker and passive - expected (to me anyway) for a 20yo design. Internal xo would also be consistent with the flexible amping claimed.

If this is the case, life is a lot simpler than having to provide active external xo via miniDSP etc. And you should be good to go with a 3700h

 

[Ijk5565]

Let's trace back from one triamped speaker. Does it end up using 3 channels on one 5125? Then are the 3 channels daisy-chained with short RCA jumper cables, the 1st output to the 2nd input etc?

This would indicate full frequency provision from the Amp channels to each transducer input, with xo internal to the speaker and passive - expected (to me anyway) for a 20yo design. Internal xo would also be consistent with the flexible amping claimed.

If this is the case, life is a lot simpler than having to provide active external xo via miniDSP etc. And you should be good to go with a 3700h

Thank you for your triamp insight Cahudson42.

I can confirm that each triamped speaker goes into 3 separate 5125 amps. Does that change your advice in any way when it comes to the 3700h?

The way the speakers/amps are connected appears to be as follows:

1. Amp#1: BL, BR, C1 Aand C2 (this amp seems to have and RCA cable that goes from C1 to C2)
2. Amp# #2, #3 AND #4 - Each of these amps carries 2 sets of speaker wire. One set of wires from FL and one from FR. They are also daisy chained to one another with a single RCA cable.
3. Amp #5 - SL and SR

Note: Looks like I undercut the number of amps in my original post as I missed the one that controls SL and SR.

 

[Cahudson42]

Each of these amps carries 2 sets of speaker wire.

A 'set' is 3 cables?

Perhaps other members can add their understanding of the wiring. Unfortunately, from your description, I don't.

Anyway, let's look at the speakers. Attached is the LS500. There is a seemingly conventional set of 3 pairs of binding posts, and discussion of adding connecting straps for single, bi, and tri wiring. There does not appear o be markings which posts go to witch transducer, but it might be logical to assume the tweeter is the middle.

There is also discussion about 'optional Aktiv Crossover Modules' - which I am assuming you do not have? As well as internal passive xo, which seems standard..

At this point, given the specifications at the back of the manual, here is what I would try if this system were mine..

I would check to see if the AV5125s are really actually selling for anywhere near $500. Actually sold, not asked.

Depending on budget, and making sure I could return it, get one of the Denons, not the Marantz.

I would then listen to the speaker system 2 ways - one keeping the original 5125,s, the other using the Denon directly in bi-amp mode for the FR and FL, and single mode for the others, adding straps (or wire bridges) as appropriate at the speaker binding posts. In each case using AudesseyXT32 for room optimization via the optional $25 app..

Then - is there an audible difference?? The big question

By now you see where I am going...can I 'unload' the 5125s for anywhere near $2000? Now this is me personally. Others might think the 5125s are 'the cat's meow,' and would 'never sell them'...Not me. I'll take the $2000 and use it for maybe the higher end Denons, or more likely a pair of nice Revels for F and R, redeploying the Kabers to surround duty, or resale..

Just sayin'

Anyway, you are in a nice position to go a couple different ways. Reuse - or 'found money's..Nice!

I encourage other members to chime in, either with their ideas, or to demolish mine..

Have fun!

Edit: A bit of info on 5125 'aktiv'..Open up - maybe you have them?
http://audiophilemusings.blogspot.com/2012/04/inside-active-linn-av5125.html

 

[JeffS7444]

I think you have a tri-wired setup, not tri-amplified, because you did not mention having any Linn Activ crossovers, and I think they'd be hard to miss. Tri-wiring appears to have been a Linn-approved configuration.

 

[tvrgeek]

I think you have a tri-wired setup, not tri-amplified, because you did not mention having any Linn Activ crossovers, and I think they'd be hard to miss. Tri-wiring appears to have been a Linn-approved configuration.

And actually useless. But it was all the fad and required by the magazine column writers who understood advertising kick backs from wire salesman better than physics. Linn knows it does not hurt, so they supported it. They are in business to make money after all and even when making very good equipment, not good to insult the subjective reviewers. There are of course reasons for and against tri-amping with active crossovers. Not discussed much is using both active and passive as it to has some advantages.

My personal view is "high end" pretty much is leading you to an AV preamp and external amps. Receiver amps, even the top of the line, just do not have the physical space in the box for what I consider high end. For one thing, I will not tolerate a fan making noise in there. Unfortunately that rules out several otherwise nice units and raises the stakes a lot. FWIW, my HT is still a lowly bottom of the line Anthem. Current upgrade is the speakers again. ( I can upgrade electronics from .03% THD to .01%, or I can upgrade my speakers from 4% to .5%) Glue drying on my new center cabinet as I type. My hi-end system is in the living room for serious music listening.

 

[Ijk5565]

A 'set' is 3 cables?

When I say set, I'm referring to the 1 red/black cable.

Turning to your comments on the amps being activ, I can confirm that every amp says on it that it has "activ card sensing". I am attaching a photo of the amps I believe to be triamped in the hopes it will be helpful in assessing my situation. Note that there are 3 amps wired exactly like this. Each amp has 1 red/black from the front left speaker and another red/black from the front right speaker.

I do agree with your thoughts on testing Cahudson42. That's 100% my intention.

That said, I'm a bit confused as to whether my setup is triwired, or triamped. Does the activ card sensing or the pic of the back of the amp make things anymore clear? I really want to get a better understanding of what I'm dealing with here.

 

[Cahudson42]

Great! We can see now that you have 2 channel amps, not the 5 channel...Likely tri-wired - not enough for tri-amping each speaker?

 

[Ijk5565]

@Cahudson, 3 of the amps look like that (2 channel). And those 3 only connect to the FL and FR making 3 black/red connections for each speaker (for a total of 6 connections for just the 2 front speakers).

The other 2 I believe are the 5 channel. For example, one of my amps has both back speakers and 2 connections for centre (I'm thinking this may be visited?). See my post above which explains what is connected to each amp.

What makes my connections triwiring vs triamping? Based on the further research I've done it would seem that Linn does put active crossover modules inside their power amps and it seems like that is what I have. Wouldn't that make this a triamp setup? (i.e. I have each front speaker connected to 3 separate amps with 3 crossovers built into each amp)

I feel like I may be in over my head though lol

 

[JeffS7444]

Ooh, it appears that Linn offered their speaker-specific Activ crossover as optional modules located within the power amplifier chassis which could explain your lack of additional components.

Do the rear of the Kabers say "Use only with Kaber Aktiv crossover"? If so, then yes it would appear you have a true biamp / triamp setup. And your easiest upgrade option be to keep existing power amplifiers w/Activ modules, but replace the Kisto with a more modern A/V preamp/processor (as opposed to a receiver). I haven't seen power amplifiers offering such an arrangement before, but it's logical enough.

 

[Cahudson42]

3 of the amps look like that (2 channel). And those 3 only connect to the FL and FR making 3 black/red connections for each speaker (for a total of 6

Now that does sound like the F and R are tri-amped

 

[Ijk5565]

Thank you all for you help. Got a 3700h that I'm about to hook up. I'll let you all know how it goes!

 

[Chrispy]

Now that does sound like the F and R are tri-amped

But actively? Passively?

 

[snatex]

You should run analogue out from each channel in your new receiver to your Kisto. I have a very similar system and setup. You would have to spend tens of thousands of dollars to get something that sounds better than what you have there.

 

[Goldie42]

I know this is an old dead thread but I was wondering how you got on using the denon with the AKTIV power amps and speaker setup.

I am personally looking into getting a kisto to replace my much more modern Denon as I don't feel denons amps much.

The AKTIV amps should make the kabers sing best as long as they are positioned well. I imagine you'd be missing a bit of bass unless the B&W sub is helping there.