A millennial's rant on classical music

[Longshan]

I dunno, seems like a poetic construct, if you ask me. And it is a viable point. A lot of the "pastness" of classical music comes out of the composers being dead, remote. Beethoven, Mozart, Liszt, Bach, all were famous for improvisation. And someone like Duke Ellington points to a composer who wrote compositions based on improvisation and written for specific performers---"Jeep's Blues" for Johnny Hodges, "Diminuendo and Crescendo in Blue" for Paul Gonsalves, "Cottontail" for Ben Webster. If you know these pieces you understand that these are compositions for specific performers. Can't do anything like that with "The Classical Tradition".

Lots of folks here whose opinions are writing cheques their knowledge can't cash.

"The Classical Tradition" is loaded with exactly what you've described. -->"And someone like Duke Ellington points to a composer who wrote compositions based on improvisation and written for specific performers---"Jeep's Blues" for Johnny Hodges, "Diminuendo and Crescendo in Blue" for Paul Gonsalves, "Cottontail" for Ben Webster. If you know these pieces you understand that these are compositions for specific performers."

 

[Longshan]

If you say so:

What a great version of The Art of Fugue's opening theme! I've had the sheer joy of performing an arrangement of this piece for brass quintet. Mega intense and mega fun!

 

[Robin L]

What a great version of The Art of Fugue's opening theme! I've had the sheer joy of performing an arrangement of this piece for brass quintet. Mega intense and mega fun!

Robert Fripp is the leader of one of the first [and arguably the best] Prog Bands, King Crimson:

I'd say that Robert Fripp fits into the "Classical Tradition" in his own way in this piece. There's Sprichstimme and crossing rhythms and tonalities, it's all so 20th Century.

His collaborations with Eno are peak "Ambient".

And he plays a mean rhythmmaster.

 

[Longshan]

Robert Fripp is the leader of one of the first [and arguably the best] Prog Bands, King Crimson:

Pretty trippy. Cool ostinato. And the song is about this thread!

 

[StefaanE]

OK, OK. I just find it fascinating that historically some concerts or films could move the audience to strong physical reaction (instead of just leaving).

Or even starting a revolution (in 1830 after a performance of “La muette de Portici”, the Belgians decided to kick out the Dutch, to caricature History ).

 

[scott wurcer]

"The Classical Tradition" is loaded with exactly what you've described. -->"And someone like Duke Ellington points to a composer who wrote compositions based on improvisation and written for specific performers---"Jeep's Blues" for Johnny Hodges, "Diminuendo and Crescendo in Blue" for Paul Gonsalves, "Cottontail" for Ben Webster. If you know these pieces you understand that these are compositions for specific performers."

Or :
From the 1920s until 1960, (Joseph) Szigeti performed regularly around the world and recorded extensively. He also distinguished himself as a strong advocate of new music, and was the dedicatee of many new works by contemporary composers. Among the more notable pieces written for him are Ernest Bloch's Violin Concerto, Bartók's Rhapsody No. 1, and Eugène Ysaÿe's Solo Sonata No. 1. After retiring from the concert stage in 1960, he worked at teaching and writing until his death in 1973, at the age of 80.

 

[ahofer]

Lots of folks here whose opinions are writing cheques their knowledge can't cash.

"The Classical Tradition" is loaded with exactly what you've described. -->"And someone like Duke Ellington points to a composer who wrote compositions based on improvisation and written for specific performers---"Jeep's Blues" for Johnny Hodges, "Diminuendo and Crescendo in Blue" for Paul Gonsalves, "Cottontail" for Ben Webster. If you know these pieces you understand that these are compositions for specific performers."

Yeah, I didn't get that when it went by. Most of the classical repertoire is written for either a specific patron or performer - or both. The incredible Brahms chamber repertoire was written for RIchard Muhlfeld, the Beethoven Violin Concerto was written for Franz Clement. And then there's Brahms writing for Clara Schumann...

 

[Longshan]

Yeah, I didn't get that when it went by. Most of the classical repertoire is written for either a specific patron or performer - or both. The incredible Brahms chamber repertoire was written for RIchard Muhlfeld, the Beethoven Violin Concerto was written for Franz Clement. And then there's Brahms writing for Clara Schumann...

Also, there's plenty of improvisation expected when performing, for example, the music of Bach. And most concertos have at least one cadenza in them, which is when the soloist improvises while the orchestra pauses-->wait that sounds like a jazz concert. . . exactly.

 

[StefaanE]

Or :
From the 1920s until 1960, (Joseph) Szigeti performed regularly around the world and recorded extensively. He also distinguished himself as a strong advocate of new music, and was the dedicatee of many new works by contemporary composers. Among the more notable pieces written for him are Ernest Bloch's Violin Concerto, Bartók's Rhapsody No. 1, and Eugène Ysaÿe's Solo Sonata No. 1. After retiring from the concert stage in 1960, he worked at teaching and writing until his death in 1973, at the age of 80.

Hilary Hahn continues that tradition. She’s commissioned Concertos from Edgar Meyer and Jennifer Higdon, encore pieces from 27 contemporary composers, etc.

 

[Robin L]

Also, there's plenty of improvisation expected when performing, for example, the music of Bach. And most concertos have at least one cadenza in them, which is when the soloist improvises while the orchestra pauses-->wait that sounds like a jazz concert. . . exactly.

Right, but a lot of the 'Classical Tradition", or bad habits, is a kind of inhibition. Things are loosening up, but I recall some honked off critics complaining about a short cadenza thrown into the David Zinman/Tonehalle Orchestra recording of Beethoven's 7th Symphony. That sort of complaint is still tossed about, but musical performance is mostly catching up with previously buried history.

 

[Robin L]

Hilary Hahn continues that tradition. She’s commissioned Concertos from Edgar Meyer and Jennifer Higdon, encore pieces from 27 contemporary composers, etc.

Did she ever finish the Bach Partitas and Sonatas? Her recording of the first half is exquisite.

 

[ahofer]

Also, there's plenty of improvisation expected when performing, for example, the music of Bach. And most concertos have at least one cadenza in them, which is when the soloist improvises while the orchestra pauses-->wait that sounds like a jazz concert. . . exactly.

I have to say, especially a few decades ago, the artists often choose a composed cadenza rather than improvise one themselves. In my generation, improvisation was sadly missing from formal music education. You had to go over to Berklee or North Texas State.

 

[Robin L]

Yeah, I didn't get that when it went by. Most of the classical repertoire is written for either a specific patron or performer - or both. The incredible Brahms chamber repertoire was written for RIchard Muhlfeld, the Beethoven Violin Concerto was written for Franz Clement. And then there's Brahms writing for Clara Schumann...

Yes, I understand how almost all of the classic warhorses [and lots more besides] were written for specific performers. The history of the dedication of Beethoven's "Kreutzer" violin sonata being one of the more notable ones. Still, when I hear any number of people playing the Beethoven Violin Concerto, a number will sound good, plausible, authentic to my ears. But Johnny Hodges owns "Jeep's Blues".

 

[StefaanE]

Did she ever finish the Bach Partitas and Sonatas? Her recording of the first half is exquisite.

There’s the second Bach recording from 2018 (after the first “Hilary Hahn plays Bach” from 1997). Both are great.

 

[Robin L]

There’s the second Bach recording from 2018 (after the first “Hilary Hahn plays Bach” from 1997. Both are great.

Thanks!

 

[StefaanE]

Yes, I understand how almost all of the classic warhorses [and lots more besides] were written for specific performers. The history of the dedication of Beethoven's "Kreutzer" violin sonata being one of the more notable ones. Still, when I hear any number of people playing the Beethoven Violin Concerto, a number will sound good, plausible, authentic to my ears. But Johnny Hodges owns "Jeep's Blues".

And quite a few were written by the first performers themselves — Mozart, Beethoven, Prokofiev, Rachmaninov, ... the list is almost endless.

 

[Robin L]

And quite a few were written by the first performers themselves — Mozart, Beethoven, Prokofiev, Rachmaninov, ... the list is almost endless.

We are very lucky to have Rachmaninov's recordings of his works.

 

[Longshan]

Yes, I understand how almost all of the classic warhorses [and lots more besides] were written for specific performers. The history of the dedication of Beethoven's "Kreutzer" violin sonata being one of the more notable ones. Still, when I hear any number of people playing the Beethoven Violin Concerto, a number will sound good, plausible, authentic to my ears. But Johnny Hodges owns "Jeep's Blues".

Dennis Brain "owned" the first Hindemith Horn Sonata. . . ‍

 

[Longshan]

Hilary Hahn continues that tradition. She’s commissioned Concertos from Edgar Meyer and Jennifer Higdon, encore pieces from 27 contemporary composers, etc.

She is a friend of mine, sort of. You have excellent taste! Her recording of the Sibelius is probably the most musical I've ever heard.

 

[Longshan]

Right, but a lot of the 'Classical Tradition", or bad habits, is a kind of inhibition. Things are loosening up, but I recall some honked off critics complaining about a short cadenza thrown into the David Zinman/Tonehalle Orchestra recording of Beethoven's 7th Symphony. That sort of complaint is still tossed about, but musical performance is mostly catching up with previously buried history.

That's true. In a sense, the "loosening up" is a return to the Classical period, where there was more improv. But things are changing. Some years ago, I heard Jamie Sommerville (principal horn BSO, but from Toronto and an old teacher of mine), in the midst of his cadenza for Mozart's 3rd horn concerto, suddenly quote from the theme for "Entertainment Tonight."

Absolutely ridiculous. But it's Jamie. . . who's gonna complain?