A millennial's rant on classical music

[scott wurcer]

Music can profoundly move people even to the point of full riot. Stravinsky did as did Russolo with his noise music. Jadorowsky did with his film “Fando Y Lis”. Diamanda Galas cleared out the Sydney Opera house and Seiji Ozawa got the Boston Symphony crowd out of their seats booing with Nikos Mamangakis’ “Anarchia”. I’ve enjoyed several plays, films, and concerts (I wish I was there for Pussy Riot) that sent most of the audience rushing for the doors. Being simply bored with certain music does not say much.

 

[StevenEleven]

It is said that Charlie Parker was steeped in modern classical music, and lacked much background in very early 20th century jazz. So he came at jazz with a different stylistic vocabulary. He is said to have envisioned playing modern classical music but with some added warmth that he felt was missing from it. In fact if I recall correctly there is a video out there where Charlie Parker actually said these things, but I can’t find it at the moment.

And so it happened one night that Charlie Parker performed with Stravinsky in the front row!! And without acknowledging the fact outright quoted Stravinsky in his solos!!

https://www.openculture.com/2016/10...e-parker-played-for-igor-stravinsky-1951.html

My family is from the Midwest, so I get country. Charlie Parker is said to have loved country music too. His advice: “Listen to the stories.”

So much for boundaries.

 

[Sal1950]

Being simply bored with certain music does not say much.

No, it actually speaks volumes.

 

[ahofer]

No, it actually speaks volumes.

Got a feeling you two crossed wires unintentionally.

 

[Sal1950]

Wat choo takin bout Willis ?

 

[scott wurcer]

Wat choo takin bout Willis ?

To make an example when Seiji Ozawa got the Boston Symphony crowd out of their seats booing with Nikos Mamangakis’ “Anarchia” ( I only saw it on TV) the audience was physically disrupting a performance by one of the most prestigious musical organizations in the country. When the BSO had the Koto drummers of Japan as guests (I was there) the same bunch of blue hairs simply ran for the doors at intermission, I find this very different messages.

 

[Sal1950]

To make an example when Seiji Ozawa got the Boston Symphony crowd out of their seats booing with Nikos Mamangakis’ “Anarchia” ( I only saw it on TV) the audience was physically disrupting a performance by one of the most prestigious musical organizations in the country. When the BSO had the Koto drummers of Japan as guests (I was there) the same bunch of blue hairs simply ran for the doors at intermission, I find this very different messages.

Scott, You do understand that I have no understanding of the people your discussing or any idea of the meaning of, or reason for, their actions?
I'm just trying to make lite of the direction of the thread. I'm a rockin, country, bluesman to the very end. And proud of it!
Progressive Rock Rules

 

[TimF]

Zajj
to play zajj a person must be able to transform inform deform oneself into a young 20's on-top-of -the-world splendid and lively oh so swell lover with beginning of the day energy. A spring day at perfect 68 degrees with a cloud or two, but no more. And a swell girl on his mind.
And all that cannot must not be pretend. You have to be there, and more so, likely as not to be dancing down the street. And maybe you got $120 in your pocket, too.

 

[bluefuzz]

To make an example when Seiji Ozawa got the Boston Symphony crowd out of their seats booing with Nikos Mamangakis’ “Anarchia” ( I only saw it on TV) the audience was physically disrupting a performance by one of the most prestigious musical organizations in the country

Slightly OT, but I only know Mamangakis from his beautiful soundtrack to Edgar Reitz' Heimat TV series trilogy. Some of the music in that is a bit spiky but nothing to cause a riot I wouldn't think. For once Spotify disappoints too – there is almost nothing available by Mamangakis aside from some nice guitar music and another soundtrack. I must do some digging ...

 

[Hon]

The final cultural weirdness is the separation between composer and performer. It's to be expected from a genre whose composers mostly past away years ago and require many dozens of players to play most of its repertoire.

If you don't know the difference between "past" and "passed," then your opinions can't be trusted.

 

[Daverz]

If you don't know the difference between "past" and "passed," then your opinions can't be trusted.

If you fixate on one instance of incorrect word usage and make sweeping conclusions from it, your judgement can not be trusted.

 

[Sal1950]

If you fixate on one instance of incorrect word usage and make sweeping conclusions from it, your judgement can not be trusted.

+10,000

 

[Robin L]

If you don't know the difference between "past" and "passed," then your opinions can't be trusted.

I dunno, seems like a poetic construct, if you ask me. And it is a viable point. A lot of the "pastness" of classical music comes out of the composers being dead, remote. Beethoven, Mozart, Liszt, Bach, all were famous for improvisation. And someone like Duke Ellington points to a composer who wrote compositions based on improvisation and written for specific performers---"Jeep's Blues" for Johnny Hodges, "Diminuendo and Crescendo in Blue" for Paul Gonsalves, "Cottontail" for Ben Webster. If you know these pieces you understand that these are compositions for specific performers. Can't do anything like that with "The Classical Tradition".

I was listening to my rip of the Ali Farka Toure & Toumani Diabate CD this morning, African music, North African tradition, reminding me of both Indian Classical music and western trance musics, something hovering near the idea of a Classical tradition of improvising, the sort of thing someone like Steve Reich or Philip Glass might take up. The lack of improvisation is the sort of thing that sets off people when speaking of the hermetic nature of the "Classical Tradition", where one expects to hear the same set of notes in the same order, time after time. Of course, as the concert halls also feature the likes of Ali Farka Toure & Toumani Diabate these days; as far as the New York Times is concerned, there is a connection established between "World Music" [whatever the hell that is] and "Serious Concert Music". So the initial point of this thread is mostly moot, more like virtue signaling than a concern regarding restriction of expression or judgements based on something other than talent.

 

[rdenney]

De gustibus non est disputandum. I’m sure that’s been said many times in this necrothread.

It’s a big world, surely with room enough for those who love classical music in an aural museum setting (as I do), for those who want to shake the form into modernity (as I have at times), and those who simply don’t like it (as I don’t in some cases).

Last night, I listened to Maynard Ferguson’s Live at Jimmy’s, MF Horn 4 and 5. I bought the vinyl record when it was new.

Four nights ago, I listened to Yes playing Close to the Edge, also on vinyl that I bought when new.

Three nights ago, I listened to Wynton Marsalis’s Hot House Flowers, a CD I bought new.

Two nights ago, I listened to Ralph Vaughan Williams’s masterpiece Fantasia on a Theme by Thomas Tallis, and got emotional about it. I bought that CD when it was new, of the many that are available.

Tonight, it will probably be Dream Theater.

There are genres I don’t much like, but there’s so much I do like that it just doesn’t seem necessary to talk about the stuff I pass by. Those who like that stuff will judge me for it, because music is emotional on several levels and we can’t think too rationally about it. I don’t need that and neither do they.

Say what you will about symphonic orchestral, choral, and chamber music, we are still talking about it (with passion) in some cases 400 years after it was composed, and we know it by its composers more than by its performers. Some other genres will last that long, and some composers will live on with that level of familiarity. Most won’t.

Rick “wondering at how easily we use the word ‘hate’” Denney

 

[SIY]

Tonight, it will probably be Dream Theater.

So a quiet, mellow, and relaxing evening.

 

[rdenney]

So a quiet, mellow, and relaxing evening.

Scotch will help with the relaxation part.

Rick “just finished ripping the complete symphonies of Prokofiev, performed by the Scottish National Orchestra under the incomparable Neeme Järvi, so the flavor of peat is on my mind, and, yes, a connection this tenuous is good enough” Denney

 

[scott wurcer]

Scott, You do understand that I have no understanding of the people your discussing or any idea of the meaning of, or reason for, their actions?
I'm just trying to make lite of the direction of the thread. I'm a rockin, country, bluesman to the very end. And proud of it!
Progressive Rock Rules

OK, OK. I just find it fascinating that historically some concerts or films could move the audience to strong physical reaction (instead of just leaving).

 

[Robin L]

Scott, You do understand that I have no understanding of the people your discussing or any idea of the meaning of, or reason for, their actions?
I'm just trying to make lite of the direction of the thread. I'm a rockin, country, bluesman to the very end. And proud of it!
Progressive Rock Rules

If you say so:

 

[ctakim]

This thread reminded me of this vinyl pressing that was in my parents record collection!

 

[Longshan]

The comment about the Imperial Death March made me think of this scene - effective use of Beethoven.

now THAT speaks to me.

ALL use of Beethoven is effective!