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A comparison of convolution engines

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Keith_W

Keith_W

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Spreadsheet updated. A lot of "unknowns" with Roon and Audiolense Convolver because I was unable to glean the information from the websites. Roon's website lacks much information about its convolution engine, and Audiolense's website is surprisingly sparse.

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HenrikEnquist

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I even explained why ASIO API for lower latency and still not quite enough in case of JRiver for let's say full lips sync on YouTube video (after re sync which takes 10~15 sec and it's hear able it's OK but only OK).
We are not talking about the same thing. I mean the concept of presenting a virtual playback device, so that sound from normal desktop apps can be captured and processed. I'm not sure what you are talking about, low-latency advantages of using asio maybe?
 

dualazmak

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Text editor required in EKIO? The answer is "No!", I believe as wrote in my post #22.
 
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ZolaIII

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@HenrikEnquist well in context of something as emulated playback device which adds latency along with comprehensive DSP tool chain (disreging of convolver which is actually less intensive than dozen of PEQ filters) the lower latency (from available one's) API comes as obvious choice and ASIO is handy there. We are talking about WDM driver trough ASIO API from beginning.
 

dualazmak

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Remarks for EKIO, if acceptable;
"Simple beautiful and rather traditional GUI; all the numeric input up-down can be done by keyboard input and also by mouse wheel rotation."
 

dualazmak

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BTW a question - how does it have an ABX comparator if it does not support multiple filter banks?

Sorry, but I have never used ABX comparator of EKIO.... I will soon look into it.
 

dualazmak

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Keith_W

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Remarks for EKIO, if acceptable;
"Simple beautiful and rather traditional GUI; all the numeric input up-down can be done by keyboard input and also by mouse wheel rotation."

Sorry, too wordy. It has to fit in a narrow column in a spreadsheet. I could write A LOT about JRiver and Roon for e.g. but I kept it extremely brief.


Thank you. That implies existence of multiple filter banks. Would you be able to look a bit closer and report back?
 

AdamG

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View attachment 285046

View attachment 285047

Updated spreadsheet. Looks like I can't edit the first post any more? @BDWoody @AdamG247 ?
Not sure what you are questioning here? Will assume you are asking about getting locked out of being able to edit your original post. That’s completely normal forum editor behavior. Everyone loses their ability to edit any post after 24hr egg timer. The only exception to this rule is for Donor Status Members. They get unlimited edit time for all posts as a little perk for becoming a Donor. This perk comes with all donation levels. :cool:
 

Music1969

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HQPlayer = 128 channels supported ...

HQplayer number of filter banks is practically unlimited , under "Matrix profiles".

HQPlayer includes parametric EQ.

HQPlayer has volume levelling support.

Table needs to be corrected...
 

dualazmak

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Thank you. That implies existence of multiple filter banks. Would you be able to look a bit closer and report back?

Quickly done.

Yes, EKIO can have multiple configuration settings at once (each config has ".ekio" suffix when saved in EKIO folder), and within EKIO we can Name each like "sample config1", "sample config2", "sample config3", and so on.

After launching ABX comparator, we can assign any of them to Config A and Config B for ABX comparison;
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Even we can assign same one for Config A and Config B, of course.

Very simple (and rather traditional?) but well designed ABX comparator, I assume.
Consequently, EKIO has "Unlimited Numbers of filter banks" and "Yes ABX comparator".;)

BTW, within EKIO, we can quickly change/select the "internally named" configurations, i.e. "filter banks" you mean, but not seamlessly on-the-fly while listening to music; when I change the "filter bank" while playing music, EKIO stops playing, and I need to push "play" again under the new "filter bank"; I assume this was so designed for safety concerns.

Even I do not know about what do you mean by "ISO226 volume control", EKIO does have "volume control" of 0.1 dB granularity in Input Channel gain control; I usually use JRiver MC (or DAC8PRO) as my master volume controller, though.
 
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Keith_W

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Thank you all for your feedback. I have updated the spreadsheet again. Note the new section with links to the manual does not fit in the narrow column of the spreadsheet. If you want to view the manual, click here to see the spreadsheet on Google drive. The full link to the manual is available there. I have also added a new section on license and resource usage.

Unless specifically mentioned otherwise, all convolvers listed here have a GUI and use standard .WAV files for convolution. Requiring a proprietary file format is a serious limitation which requires you to use specific software to generate the filters. This is noted in "negatives".

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dualazmak

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Sorry, but let me repeat this:
Even I do not know about what do you mean by "ISO226 volume control", EKIO does have "volume control" of 0.1 dB granularity in Input Channel gain control; I usually use JRiver MC (or DAC8PRO) as my master volume controller, though.

EKIO's paid license is "lifetime", and so far the updates (minor updates?) have been free, no additional charge; I hope the same for future major version-up if it will happen.:)
 
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Music1969

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HQplayer has loudness / volume level compensation, that is customizable

And HQPlayer Server can run on a Raspberry Pi4, so I would change the CPU resources comment which currently starts at "Moderate" - what exactly is moderate?

May as well make it "Light to moderate to heavy - depending what you choose"

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Keith_W

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Sorry, but let me repeat this:
Even I do not know about what do you mean by "ISO226 volume control", EKIO does have "volume control" of 0.1 dB granularity in Input Channel gain control; I usually use JRiver MC (or DAC8PRO) as my master volume controller, though.

EKIO's paid license is "lifetime", and so far the update (minor updates?) (and hopefully future major version up) has been free, no additional charge.

Thank you. Updated spreadsheet.

ISO226 volume control refers to equal loudness curves. Convolvers which have this function automatically apply bass and treble compensation with volume changes. There have been debates on ASR about whether such a feature should be used. Although I am firmly on the side of "yes", all the convolvers listed with this feature have the option to turn it off if you don't want it.

HQplayer has loudness / volume level compensation, that is customizable

And HQPlayer Server can run on a Raspberry Pi4, so I would change the CPU resources comment which currently starts at "Moderate" - what exactly is moderate?

May as well make it "Light to moderate to heavy - depending what you choose"

View attachment 285161

Thank you. Spreadsheet has been updated. That looks like a very interesting volume control setting - far more advanced than JRiver's or Acourate Convolver.

"Moderate" means >10% CPU usage on my PC (i9-9900K) on it's least resource intensive setting. Of course this depends on whether I have tested it and what can be inferred on whether it runs on low resource devices. HQP is the only convolver that has the option to offload processing to CUDA, which highly recommended if you wish to convolve in DSD512. Otherwise you have to deal with high CPU usage and heat generation. When I still had my HQP license (which disappeared after a HDD crash and I found I could not re-download an old version of HQP) I frequently saw CPU usage of >90% if I was convolving in DSD256. Yes, it can be configured to run "light", but why would you spend 249 Euro and not take advantage of its most well known feature?
 

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mitchco

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Hi Mitch, thanks for replying. That industry standard config file is a recipe for confusion for people who don't know much about computers. It took me hours to figure out how to write my own config file for JRiver, having never written one before.
Thanks Keith. My point is that you should not have to write your own config file as some of the DSP/DRC software packages output the .cfg file automatically and one simply loads the .cfg into the convolver and done. No text editing required. Comes down to the choice of DSP/DRC Designer tools used to create the filters...The onus is on the DSP/DRC designer software to output the correct configuration file. I have not had to write one for years because of the DSP tools I have chosen to use. While I appreciate you had to write one, that is not the norm, so HLC does not require a "text editor."

As mentioned, the convolver config file specification allows for sophisticated convolution scenarios. One of those scenarios is where the system may be 7.1.4 Dolby Atmos system, but is also used for 2 channels stereo listening, or 2.1, or 5.0 or 5.1 or 5.1.4 or 7.1 or... So how does one accommodate this? Tools like Audiolense outputs the config files for all of these possible channel configurations. So depending on the music selected the convolver can load the correct sample rate filter that matches the source sample rate, and load the correct channel configuration (i.e. .cfg file) based on the source number of channels.

Fyi, Hang Loose Convolver's perpetual license includes all future (free) upgrades. Additionally, the perpetual license allows up to 6 activations, meaning it can be installed on 6 different computers with any combo of Mac, Linux, Windows whether in "plugin" mode or "standalone" mode or both.
 

Music1969

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Yes, it can be configured to run "light", but why would you spend 249 Euro and not take advantage of its most well known feature?
Because of all its other features? Per your updated table ?

There are lots of people doing PCM upsampling and very happy.

The PCM output side of HQP is just as useful and popular as DSD

Lots of R2R DAC users for example

I think you are forcing too much light on DSD here
 
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