$30K Budget - On the quest for my "end game" speaker

[MarkS]

This is exactly why I wanted to see the measurement. My theory … maybe early on Legacy did measurement based designs, then it got too expensive to heft those giants to some off site anechoic measurement facility and Legacy said screw it, then they started designing “by ear” (purely subjectively). Doesn’t mean you can’t design an accurate loudspeaker with such methods, again the Aeris sounded very good, but I think we would all agree it is very difficult to do so.

I don't think Legacy is doing it "by ear", but they do appear to be using measurement tools that are less than state-of-the-art. This does not mean that they cannot get good results, or that designers with access to state-of-the-art tools will always do better.

I feel better about a more straightforward Legacy design like the Aeris than I do a more complicated design like the V, which seems to be trying to do something with controlled directivity that I think is hard to get right without state-of-the-art directional measurements.

 

[Lsc]

If you are close to or reside in Illinois, why not just visit Legacy? I certainly would at this point if I were in the vicinity!

I live in Chicago (suburbs) and actually went to the same college as Bill (founder of Legacy). Good old University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign . When I was down there I recall Legacy being out of touch expensive for a poor college kid. I said someday but went down the Revel train. Central Illinois is not close (at least for me) to just go have a listen. Axpona is 40 minutes away and I planned on going anyway so it makes more sense.

I’m curious but I won’t be switching speakers so I don’t want to waste anyone’s time. I’ll enjoy listening to the Legacy Aeris but hopefully I won’t come home and regret it.

 

[benanders]

Bingo! So when ya gonna go listen to the Aeris? Now we are all waiting for your audition impressions!

@MKR it’ll be up to the dealer. Some weekend in the not-distant future if they have Aeris on the floor.

I’m interested based on the very concerns @MarkS mentions (I know, mostly for V, but…). Legacy seems (based on their info provided) to take a sort of hand-touched approach in usually-more-technical [DSP] methodology. I suspect it’s why (as @gnarly proposed) you liked the Trinnov more - increasingly sophisticated software doing its thing. Can Aeris with the Wavelet tell me something different?

Like I hinted earlier - the amount of experimentation and time @Wesayso has put into DSP for his DIY LA’s - demonstrates what able-minded, determined individuals can achieve with music plied through software.

When I began my own LA project, I was torn between which of two monitors to co-opt as the coupled transducers in a conventional LA: the vertically-oriented version ( = what I went with), or a horizontal center Ch version of the same model. The center Ch option would’ve had superior directivity (so better with sidewalls), but also put constraints on possible future directions (in directivity) that interest me.
Basically, I opted for wide dispersion vs. strong directivity of the same “sound.” So you see I’m actually going somewhere relevant with that me-Me-ME diatribe:

Legacy’s Aeris, I suspect, might offer a window into what I could’ve heard from my LA version road-not-taken. And at its price, the Aeris is substantially less expensive than my road-not-taken.

 

[MKR]

if i may make a suggestion, might be worth purchasing one pair and then you can demo them both in the same room. Assuming you are buying the Revels at the right price there is not much risk to resell them if you prefer the Aeris. Its a pain in the butt, but then you will be sure. Worked out in my case but the result wasnt what i had predicted.

Great idea, in fact I had considered that, but indeed a big hassle I rather avoid

 

[Adi777]

Valor System also looks interesting, but the price is killing

 

[Absolute]

Regarding measurements and Legacy, I don't think they're winging it by ear without measurements at all. But I do think dispersion characteristics and estimated distance from speakers can change the way you should tune the on-axis response.

One common trait we see with speakers with beamy tweeters in either the vertical or horizontal plane is a rising response up top. While some might be explained by old people designing them and others with the intent of catching attention in showrooms, at least a certain amount can be assumed to be tuned that way by competent people using their ears to figure out a balanced sound in whatever use-case the speakers are designed for.

I have no faith in the assumption that a dipole speaker is poor measuring if it shows listening window differences compared to a normal monopole speaker with gradually changing directivity index.

 

[Adi777]

Regarding measurements and Legacy, I don't think they're winging it by ear without measurements at all. But I do think dispersion characteristics and estimated distance from speakers can change the way you should tune the on-axis response.

Legacy Aeris, V and Valor are "almost" open baffle, or it's totally different constructions?

 

[MKR]

Valor System also looks interesting, but the price is killing

Agreed … too rich for my blood … though compared to some of the outrageous pricing we see in HEA these days, the Valor could be called a bargain (which is nuts considering it is $86k, but then there are the ridiculous Borresen M1 Cryo bookshelfs for example at $100k … for BOOKSHELFS, crazy)

 

[MKR]

Legacy Aeris, V and Valor are "almost" open baffle, or it's totally different constructions?

Valor … only midwoofer is dipole
Aeris and V System … midrange and midwoofer are dipole

 

[steve59]

Rex was often working deals on the other site and he could probably recommend the amps for the salon 2, but the JC1+ is supposed to be good and the Mc 611 that I connected to the blades this weekend brought the low volume listening to another level.

 

[Kervel]

Hi MKR, great thread! Seems you enjoy a wide soundstage and envelopement. Did you audition immersive setups for upsampling stereo music?

 

[Adi777]

Agreed … too rich for my blood … though compared to some of the outrageous pricing we see in HEA these days, the Valor could be called a bargain (which is nuts considering it is $86k, but then there are the ridiculous Borresen Z1 Cryo bookshelfs for example at $100k … for BOOKSHELFS, crazy)

$86k? In Poland much more...

 

[benanders]

Agreed … too rich for my blood … though compared to some of the outrageous pricing we see in HEA these days, the Valor could be called a bargain (which is nuts considering it is $86k, but then there are the ridiculous Borresen Z1 Cryo bookshelfs for example at $100k … for BOOKSHELFS, crazy)

I think someone gave you a bad number on those Borresen Z1’s.
Seem like $10-15K / pr. range, depending on cryo.
Some of their floor-standers do get into six figure territory.

So budget-wise, you can almost get away with a 5-Ch Borresen Z1 theater. If you want to.

 

[petezapie]

I think someone gave you a bad number on those Borresen Z1’s.
Seem like $10-15K / pr. range, depending on cryo.
Some of their floor-standers do get into six figure territory.

So budget-wise, you can almost get away with a 5-Ch Borresen Z1 theater. If you want to.

Im guessing he meant Borreson M1’s which are a 100k bookshelf speakers, must be good if they are expensive!

 

[MKR]

Hi MKR, great thread! Seems you enjoy a wide soundstage and envelopement. Did you audition immersive setups for upsampling stereo music?

Indeed, I like a holographic presentation (who doesn’t?) … sorry, not sure what you mean by “immersive setups”?

 

[MKR]

I think someone gave you a bad number on those Borresen Z1’s.
Seem like $10-15K / pr. range, depending on cryo.
Some of their floor-standers do get into six figure territory.

So budget-wise, you can almost get away with a 5-Ch Borresen Z1 theater. If you want to.

Sorry, meant the M1s as @petezapie stated, corrected in my post

 

[MKR]

Maybe I need to go in a completely different direction …

Jubilee Floorstanding Speaker | Klipsch

The larger-than-life Klipsch Jubilee Heritage floorstanding speaker is the new flagship of the Heritage Series. Find a dealer and bring this powerful speaker home today.

www.klipsch.com

 

[MattHooper]

Maybe I need to go in a completely different direction …

Jubilee Floorstanding Speaker | Klipsch

The larger-than-life Klipsch Jubilee Heritage floorstanding speaker is the new flagship of the Heritage Series. Find a dealer and bring this powerful speaker home today.

www.klipsch.com

Fits your budget!

That purchase would be a real "flex."

 

[Adi777]

A lifetime would not be enough if you wanted to listen to all the interesting speakers

 

[benanders]

Indeed, I like a holographic presentation (who doesn’t?) … sorry, not sure what you mean by “immersive setups”?

Oversimplification for your purposes being: UPmixing for > 2 Ch.

Stereo purists may disfavor as “not hifi.”
A/V gurus may see as a way to meld hifi and HT approaches.

Multiple examples if googled.

Immersive sound, Audio codecs and binaural sound - StormAudio

Immersive sound provides a natural, lifelike sound experience. StormAudio supports all existing and future leading Immersive sound formats.

www.stormaudio.com

That being the current top hit.

When well-implemented, Immersive Audio seems (to me) more all-encompassing than the best of holographic stereo. Imagine it as something that turns your stereo music into an enveloping image like 5.1, or Atmos etc. does natively with movie audio.
Not quite what I go for in music playback, since I’ve still never been to a “holographic” concert of any kind, so mileage varies as with everything else.
Very cool tech, no doubt about it.