$30K Budget - On the quest for my "end game" speaker

[hwest]

This kind of marketing just reminds women that hi-fi is a boys' club. I wish we would do better.

The big boys club are Denon and Marantz making everyone believe they produce decent sound.

 

[bo_knows]

The big boys club are Denon and Marantz making everyone believe they produce decent sound.

And they don't?

 

[hwest]

And they don't?

I'm only here to say I don't prefer Denon or Marantz and never will, if someone else likes it and suggests those brands are better than what us observe through standing in front of the systems and including measurements just to validate then I'm not going to listen to that as if it were fact because it's not. It's just like comparing RCA to XLR there is no comparison it is what it is. Furthermore, when you start charging in the price range that Denon is now charging you should be providing XLR's for all channel not just a few.

 

[Newman]

@hwest in two posts you jump from implying that Denon and Marantz don’t produce decent sound, to insisting you don’t prefer them.

These are two completely different things. There is no reason why you should prefer one set of neutral electronics over another set of neutral electronics. But OTOH there is no reason why Denon and Marantz neutral electronics should be incapable of delivering ‘decent sound’. If it wasn’t decent sounding, it wouldn’t be neutral!

cheers

 

[petezapie]

The big boys club are Denon and Marantz making everyone believe they produce decent sound.

What does this have to do with chouca’s statement about sexism in the axpona ad?

 

[Newman]

This kind of marketing just reminds women that hi-fi is a boys' club. I wish we would do better.

Which part of that marketing do you thing was directed at women?

How many women do you think would look at the media where APOXNA would be placing those ads?

If they made ads targeting women, and spent a fortune putting those ads in media that are popular with women, how well spent do you think that money would be?

Much as I wish hifi wasn’t a boy’s club, IT IS. And my experience is that a lot of hifi enthusiasts wish, and try to get, their female partners more interested in hifi and listening to music qualitatively, but to no avail. Which kinda suggests it’s a boys club because women want it to be, not because we are locking them out or running the wrong marketing messages.

cheers

 

[Duke]

This kind of marketing just reminds women that hi-fi is a boys' club. I wish we would do better.

Based on my experience of being married to the wife of a speaker manufacturer for twenty-something years, that kind of ad does not make women feel welcome.

 

[garyrc]

I have known several women who were into audio. Three especially, and others a little less so. That's not counting those who I was in a stereo recording class with, and those who motored all over the S.F. Bay Area with us, to many (of the then best) recording studios with the Discover Your Ears class (two times through).

Most, upon seeing something like the Axpona ad, would make a rude noise with their mouths, or shake their heads, or say, "Of course!" or "For some things, times never change!"

My wife of 47 years made and stained the diffusors for our music room/home theater, helped design and build the room, and exercises to music in there with me. The rear wall, with diffusors.

 

[petezapie]

The ad would have been much more clever with the roles reversed and the tagline “women love audio too”

 

[chouca]

Which part of that marketing do you thing was directed at women?

How many women do you think would look at the media where APOXNA would be placing those ads?

If they made ads targeting women, and spent a fortune putting those ads in media that are popular with women, how well spent do you think that money would be?

Much as I wish hifi wasn’t a boy’s club, IT IS. And my experience is that a lot of hifi enthusiasts wish, and try to get, their female partners more interested in hifi and listening to music qualitatively, but to no avail. Which kinda suggests it’s a boys club because women want it to be, not because we are locking them out or running the wrong marketing messages.

cheers

The ad very clearly drew an analogy between loudspeaker as object of desire and woman as object of desire, which alienates women who care about such things and discourages their participation in the hobby. The notion that a message of inclusiveness need not be encouraged *because* of an existing male monoculture seems circular to me.

In fact, the message doesn't even need to be inclusive, it just shouldn't be actively alienating.

 

[Newman]

That’s standard advertising, not hifi-specific. All advertising shouldn’t be actively alienating. All advertising often is.

 

[DMill]

I’ve been in advertising for nearly 30 years as an art/creative director. it’s just a really poorly conceived, dumb ad. It reminds me of student work I see from people in ad classes that fortunately choose other careers.

 

[Newman]

The ad very clearly drew an analogy between loudspeaker as object of desire and woman as object of desire, which alienates women who care about such things and discourages their participation in the hobby. The notion that a message of inclusiveness need not be encouraged *because* of an existing male monoculture seems circular to me.

In fact, the message doesn't even need to be inclusive, it just shouldn't be actively alienating.

I honestly thought you were wishing we as hifi enthusiasts would do better at not alienating women. ie that the advert was just reminding you of something about us being a boys club.

My point was that it’s not the advert’s fault. It’s our fault. In that sense I was agreeing with you. But I would disagree with an implied message that a similar proportion of women and men are inclined to hifi as a hobby, but the women are being put off by sexist adverts.

cheers

 

[Lsc]

Geez…keep your pantyhose on

 

[Newman]

Geez…keep your pantyhose on

Watch out…the alienating thought police are going to tear your comment to shreds!

 

[Newman]

I’ve been in advertising for nearly 30 years as an art/creative director. it’s just a really poorly conceived, dumb ad. It reminds me of student work I see from people in ad classes that fortunately choose other careers.

Never mind the student work, just look at all the poorly conceived, dumb ads by major commercial entities. These are made by the students who didn’t choose other careers!

 

[MKR]

@MKR, thanks for posting your short list.

I understood that cosmetics were an important consideration for you (just behind sound quality), whereas aside from maybe the Obelisks, the Soundfield speakers shown on their website look (to my eyes) more on the homemade end of the spectrum, especially given your price point. Have you changed your mind on cosmetics, or are you anticipating a higher level of finish on the speakers than shown on the website?

Of course cosmetics matter, but obviously performance in the end is all that matters, otherwise what’s the point? I am not on a quest for “end game” furniture

As to the Soundfield offerings looking “homemade“, certainly the demo pair I have do, nor were they intended to look like a finished product. Again, only a technology demonstrator. And I do not agree the speakers on web site look homemade, but are they Sonus Faber, B&W, Wilson, “pick your favorite mega buck HEA furniture brand and insert here” level? No, but they are sufficient for my needs. With this said, I have no doubt that the ultimate finished product will look very good, and I would guess I have much more flexibility in the say of what they look like (than a typical HEA brand as they are full custom designs), which is a benefit. Assuming I decide to go with Soundfield of course

 

[DMill]

Never mind the student work, just look at all the poorly conceived, dumb ads by major commercial entities. These are made by the students who didn’t choose other careers!

Not all ads are good just like not all speakers are good. But when done well both can be compelling, honest, entertaining and move you to tears. I can provide many examples of “great” ads

 

[pablolie]

Ad campaigns are targeted and reflect who the company is reaching through a certain medium, and what the advertising company (typically not the company itself) thinks the ideal target audience is and how to reach them. By design it'll never have universal appeal - it would be bland and undifferentiated then. So to look at a targeted ad and extrapolate it into how every possible audience looks at it is flawed (because those who are not intended to see it probably never will).

And quite often polarization it the goal - not universal appeal. Just look at political campaign ads...

I am in no way defending sexism or any -ism in ads and know there's a lot of it. But I see fewer scantily clad women in ads in audio these days that look seduced by looking at expensive audio equipment, I think.

PS: I do not work in the advertisement industry but have sat in marketing campaign meetings (not in the audio industry).

 

[mglobe]

I'd suggest that the debate about advertising, and the content of the ads take place in a separate thread.