[<1000 EUR, Germany] Looking for advice on my first setup

[*Anfaenger*]

Context
I'm looking for a bit of purchasing advice on my first setup with a budget of 1000 EUR (purchasing in Germany). As you'll see, I'm not necessarily looking to hit that limit but rather looking for good value options. I've been researching budget parts over the past couple of days (thanks to this amazing forum!) but before pulling the trigger wanted a sense check. Setup will be in my living room and the main purpose is to use it for streaming from Spotify, watching TV and connecting a CD player. I've been listening to a couple of setups in local stores and to be quite honest, even the cheapest ones are already a big step up from my TV and Bluetooth speakers. That likely plays a part in why I didn't go all out on the 1000 EUR. Unfortunately, I've not been able to test any of the below parts


Initial Idea (563 EUR)
- Speakers: Wharfedale Diamond 12.2, 338 EUR
- AMP: Fosi Audio V3, 80 EUR
- DAC: SMSL SU-6, 145 EUR
Note: I'm looking at the Wharfedale Diamond 12.2 over the 12.1 given that the room is not super small at 18 m2 which they should be better for and I'm not currently planning on a subwoofer which should be OK with those. AFAIK Bluetooth with LDAC and aptx should have similar quality (at least for Spotify) compared to a streamer


Alternatives / Suggestions
I'm interested in any feedback and changes that I've been looking at in particular are below

Option 1 (+ 30 EUR): Improved streaming quality and room EQ
- DAC: Topping E30 II Lite, 84 EUR
- Streamer: WiiM Mini, 90 EUR
Note: Given the asymmetrical setup (see living room link above), I'm thinking a room EQ might make sense but then again I'm a beginner and there will be a fare few occasions where music will just be listened too randomly in the room rather than super focussed on one spot on the couch

Option 2 (+ 85 EUR): Automated on/off
- AMP: Fosi Audio ZA3, 115 EUR
- DAC: Topping D50 III, 195 EUR
Note: If I understand the 12V triggers correctly, this setup would allow me to have DAC and AMP automatically turn on when I play something. However, I'm feeling like at this point I'm putting too much money on the DAC compared to the rest of the setup

 

[JeremyFife]

Hi, and welcome

Your ideas sound fine. Nothing wrong with your first idea at all.

As you say, being able to add in some EQ later on would be nice so having one of the WiiM products is sensible.
Does your CD have a digital output - so it can be routed into a DAC - or only analogue?

All the DACs you mention are good - there will be no audible improvements but they do have different features (inputs are key), so base your choice on that

One thought did occur, you want to include your TV so;
SMSL Raw HA1 (~ 215 EUR) does everything if you add a WiiM Mini.
https://audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/shenzhen-smsl-raw-ha1-amplifier-review.58162/

The WiiM Amp does more, but costs more. This offers automated Room Correction and Sub integration (if you ever add a sub)

Your other thought is to go with Active Speakers, with no need for a separate amplifier - that's something to read up on

 

[flowolf]

For your application I would simply buy a Wiim Amp and a pair of speakers of your choice. Check Spinorama before you buy.

If you want to explore active speakers, you could just buy a pair of Kef LSX II LT, or a Wiim streamer and a pair of active monitors.
At thomann.de you can get a pair of Adam T5V (or T7V or T8V) for a really good price now.

 

[*Anfaenger*]

Thank you both! Spinorama looks like super handy website, thanks for the recommendation.

My thought behind going separates instead of an integrated amp like both of you suggested is that the streaming / Bluetooth elements are going to get outdated and/or individual elements will break rendering the entire piece useless. While this setup isn't worthy of a lifetime, I think it would be nice to be able to stick with the AMP and/or DAC for a while and just change the inputs (e.g. WiiM Mini). Does that make sense? I totally get that an integrate solution would be simpler.

Does your CD have a digital output - so it can be routed into a DAC - or only analogue?

Haven't bought one yet as it's not a top priority but definitely planning on buying one with a digital (prbly coaxial) output

All the DACs you mention are good - there will be no audible improvements but they do have different features (inputs are key), so base your choice on that

I think the most important parts for the DAC are:
- Remote volume control since the AMP doesn't have it
- Either two toslink/spdif inputs for TV and streamer or one toslink input and Bluetooth (+coaxial for the CD Player)

MSL Raw HA1 (~ 215 EUR) does everything if you add a WiiM Mini.
https://audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/shenzhen-smsl-raw-ha1-amplifier-review.58162/

How does this one compare to separate DAC and AMP? I clearly have no clue but it looks like to like it would be worse. The addition of HDMI Arc would be super nice though!

 

[dominikz]

If it was me, I'd go for:

• Wiim Amp (review and measurements) - 339€
• Wharfedale Diamond 12.1 (review and measurements) pair of speakers - 298€
• Polk HTS 10 subwoofer (measurements in the worksheet) - 369€

(Prices taken from geizhals.eu)

For a total of ~1000€ you'd get a very good full-range 2.1 system with streaming, app control, multiple inputs, TV integration, bass management and room correction / PEQ.

Personally I'd avoid using separate devices (e.g. DACs, amps, streamers...) - separates complicate the setup and can make it more difficult to use. Note that it is unlikely that going for separates would improve sound quality. The only reasons when I would consider separates is if I already had some components, or if there's no other way to satisfy a specific use-case/need.

Lastly, I see you didn't plan to, but IMHO it is worth looking into adding a subwoofer to any loudspeaker, if at all feasible.
Even much bigger speakers benefit from subwoofers - not just to increase bass extension, but also because of the opportunity to further optimize in-room response by reducing SBIR effect with careful sub/speaker placement (I wrote a bit about this recently). This requires some time and effort to learn, but it is IMHO well-worth it.

Good luck with your search!

 

[JeremyFife]

If you concentrate on the features you want, and choose from well measuring equipment then you will do well.

You can buy better measuring DACs, and Amps with lower noise / distortion or with better frequency independence - but it's very likely that those differences are below any audible threshold - you can't hear the difference.

If you want to integrate your TV, I'd prioritise HDMI Arc as a feature for sure. If it was my money, I'd go for the WiiM Amp (or Amp Pro if you can push the budget).

All your choices will sound good - choose the features you want.

 

[Wolf11Man]

Go for your favorite streamer and get an active Monitor speaker. Don't buy an amp. If you want a fast, safe and final advice and be able to use it this year, go for pair of these with a Wiim Ultra streamer: https://www.thomann.de/de/adam_t7v.htm
If you don't like the speaker, what would be quite surprising, you have 30 Days to decide. The price of pro gear is about half that of HIFI speaker, while they are not lower, but higher quality. Wonders of modern marketing. You can fit a matching sub, if you like, the T10S is €333.

You get a top streamer without compromise and a very good speakers, well in your budget. Room for some wires, too, Thomann has high quality, no fuzz for most reasonable prices. Don't spent any money on Voodoo wires!
If you don't need all features of the Wiim ultra, the Pro Plus will sound just as good.

PS If you wait a few days into january, you sure will get the streamer with a discount. It was less expensive before xmast. Thomann often has discounted return offers, it may pay of to watch there, too.

PPS read the reviews of the Adam at the Thomann page. That will give you an idea how nice they are. Most buyer don't use them for studio work, but HIFI.

 

[kemmler3D]

In my personal opinion, I think your first option is solid, but also agree with @Wolf11Man to an extent - you can get solid value from the "pro audio" stuff.

I think the best bang-for-buck these days is to buy a set of JBL 308p used, add 1 or 2 subs and do room correction with a WiiM Mini or Pro. This should get you under $1K pretty easily and give you very nice sound at moderate volumes.

Nothing wrong with the wharfedales, but if you decide to go passive you can also look at the ELAC DBR 6.2, since you are in Europe they should not be too hard to find, and they also do really well in this price range, you may be able to find them secondhand.

 

[Wolf11Man]

Another point for the ADAM's, you can sell them any time, close to the price when new. I always check ebay and the like how many are on offer and at what price. If no one sells them or only high priced, that's a good sign.

 

[Mikig]

Hi!
I would go up to 700/800 euros with the speakers, maybe looking for used ones. You could get a pair of higher level speakers.
The rest of the chain, if you deem it appropriate, you can replace it.
But a good speaker will always make the difference.

 

[kemmler3D]

Hi!
I would go up to 700/800 euros with the speakers, maybe looking for used ones. You could get a pair of higher level speakers.
The rest of the chain, if you deem it appropriate, you can replace it.
But a good speaker will always make the difference.

Good point, with some luck they could find a set of 8030s or KH120s used... that's a step up I think.

 

[Mikig]

Good point, with some luck they could find a set of 8030s or KH120s used... that's a step up I think.

Maybe it's also the right time to look for good used products; thanks to the holidays and Christmas many people sell and replace!

 

[pogo]

If second hand is also an option, I would look for the first generation Teufel M200 and add a current Bluesound Powernode. The Powernode will be upgraded to Dirac Live in early 2025.

 

[Marc v E]

Context
I'm looking for a bit of purchasing advice on my first setup with a budget of 1000 EUR (purchasing in Germany). As you'll see, I'm not necessarily looking to hit that limit but rather looking for good value options. I've been researching budget parts over the past couple of days (thanks to this amazing forum!) but before pulling the trigger wanted a sense check. Setup will be in my living room and the main purpose is to use it for streaming from Spotify, watching TV and connecting a CD player. I've been listening to a couple of setups in local stores and to be quite honest, even the cheapest ones are already a big step up from my TV and Bluetooth speakers. That likely plays a part in why I didn't go all out on the 1000 EUR. Unfortunately, I've not been able to test any of the below parts


Initial Idea (563 EUR)
- Speakers: Wharfedale Diamond 12.2, 338 EUR
- AMP: Fosi Audio V3, 80 EUR
- DAC: SMSL SU-6, 145 EUR
Note: I'm looking at the Wharfedale Diamond 12.2 over the 12.1 given that the room is not super small at 18 m2 which they should be better for and I'm not currently planning on a subwoofer which should be OK with those. AFAIK Bluetooth with LDAC and aptx should have similar quality (at least for Spotify) compared to a streamer


Alternatives / Suggestions
I'm interested in any feedback and changes that I've been looking at in particular are below

Option 1 (+ 30 EUR): Improved streaming quality and room EQ
- DAC: Topping E30 II Lite, 84 EUR
- Streamer: WiiM Mini, 90 EUR
Note: Given the asymmetrical setup (see living room link above), I'm thinking a room EQ might make sense but then again I'm a beginner and there will be a fare few occasions where music will just be listened too randomly in the room rather than super focussed on one spot on the couch

Option 2 (+ 85 EUR): Automated on/off
- AMP: Fosi Audio ZA3, 115 EUR
- DAC: Topping D50 III, 195 EUR
Note: If I understand the 12V triggers correctly, this setup would allow me to have DAC and AMP automatically turn on when I play something. However, I'm feeling like at this point I'm putting too much money on the DAC compared to the rest of the setup

I would recommend you try the elac debut reference dbr 62 for about 500 euros. Imo it leaves nothing to be desired for. Pair with fosi audio or something similar, a dac and you got yourself something that amazes and delights.

 

[Mal]

Context
... streaming from Spotify, watching TV and connecting a CD player.

This I've done for several years. I started with "cheap separates", after reading many forums for good recommendations, but was much happier when I upgraded to KEF LSX. OK, you might do better with the separates you mention, or what you end up with after good advice in this thread, but at least have a listen to KEF LSX (and maybe other actives like Elac Debut ConneX DCB41.)

On durability of actives - I've been using the kef lsx without a problem for two years as my main TV & music listening speaker, my separates have been more problematic. Richer Sounds UK offer a 6 year guarantee for the kef lsx - they don't do that for all active speakers (!) - so they must think it's, generally, very durable.

Does your CD player have digital outputs? If it has, the cheaper KEF LSX II LT might be the best bag for buck, but if you need aux-in then KEF LSX II is needed (might be outside your price range... so then maybe consider a second hand KEF LSX...)

What are the setups in local stores you liked? Why not simply go with the best of them? This has be be better than buying unheard, unless you are happy to do a lot of swapping and sending back - maybe sending back instantly!

 

[RosalieTheDog]

All of your options are great. My advice is 1) to choose a streamer like the Wiim over Bluetooth if you have wifi, 2) to make sure the Dac has a remote and 3) not to worry about trigger-in. You can get by with an auto-on power strip.

Also think of how to connect the TV and the streamer to the DAC at the same time. DACs often have only have two non usb digital inputs. The Wiim amp solves this and might be the all in one solution you are looking for and it would definitely be my pick for this use case.

 

[Wolf11Man]

There is quite some consent that the Wiim Ultra is about the best "all inclusive" solution on a budget there is. The sound is perfect, which is out of question. It has a remote, a real volume knob you can turn (I would miss that detail), a color display, a HDMI input for easy TV connection, analog and digital in, equlization plus all the wireless stuff and voice control. You can even connect your record player if that is a point. For your actives or amp, there is a remote 12 Volt out. The room correction is only the cherry on the top.
Or in short: It has anything you could ever need for your audio.
I saw it before xmast for € 360. There will be a lot of dark fridays when 2025 starts! This may seem a little expensive at first sight, but you get a first class pre amp, room correction, excelent DAC and all the convenience in one attractive unit even your girlfriend will like.
If you are smart and leave the loop hole of a separate amp ( Always asking your self: "Is it really the best for my speaker or should I get another one?") and get some serious, active speakers, you are set for the next years.
OK, if you come from a HIFI world, these active studio speaker seem to cheap to be true, but once you have realized how high the mark up of the shop price is, you may understand. In the pro audio world there is real competition and people know what is a good speaker.
The Wharfedales, just like all HIFI brands are most of the time on sale with up to 50% discount and still anyone makes profit. Ask why. They are made so cheap, production cost has no relation to the retail price. This ratio is much better with pro gear today.

 

[Multicore]

Kali or Adam speakers and a WiiM Ultra.

Welcome to ASR.

Btw, check out this thread. It's long but good fun and covers a lot of q&a.

After 9 Months of Research - Rate My First System (Before I Buy It)!

Be kind to the rookie (please). I've been lurking and reading everything I can, putting off my purchases as long as I can bear...and the moment is finally here. First, some details: Room Details ~5.5-6m sq (small office) just a couple acoustic treatments from GIK (not currently installed as...

www.audiosciencereview.com

 

[ehabheikal]

Context
I'm looking for a bit of purchasing advice on my first setup with a budget of 1000 EUR (purchasing in Germany). As you'll see, I'm not necessarily looking to hit that limit but rather looking for good value options. I've been researching budget parts over the past couple of days (thanks to this amazing forum!) but before pulling the trigger wanted a sense check. Setup will be in my living room and the main purpose is to use it for streaming from Spotify, watching TV and connecting a CD player. I've been listening to a couple of setups in local stores and to be quite honest, even the cheapest ones are already a big step up from my TV and Bluetooth speakers. That likely plays a part in why I didn't go all out on the 1000 EUR. Unfortunately, I've not been able to test any of the below parts


Initial Idea (563 EUR)
- Speakers: Wharfedale Diamond 12.2, 338 EUR
- AMP: Fosi Audio V3, 80 EUR
- DAC: SMSL SU-6, 145 EUR
Note: I'm looking at the Wharfedale Diamond 12.2 over the 12.1 given that the room is not super small at 18 m2 which they should be better for and I'm not currently planning on a subwoofer which should be OK with those. AFAIK Bluetooth with LDAC and aptx should have similar quality (at least for Spotify) compared to a streamer


Alternatives / Suggestions
I'm interested in any feedback and changes that I've been looking at in particular are below

Option 1 (+ 30 EUR): Improved streaming quality and room EQ
- DAC: Topping E30 II Lite, 84 EUR
- Streamer: WiiM Mini, 90 EUR
Note: Given the asymmetrical setup (see living room link above), I'm thinking a room EQ might make sense but then again I'm a beginner and there will be a fare few occasions where music will just be listened too randomly in the room rather than super focussed on one spot on the couch

Option 2 (+ 85 EUR): Automated on/off
- AMP: Fosi Audio ZA3, 115 EUR
- DAC: Topping D50 III, 195 EUR
Note: If I understand the 12V triggers correctly, this setup would allow me to have DAC and AMP automatically turn on when I play something. However, I'm feeling like at this point I'm putting too much money on the DAC compared to the rest of the setup

if you want room correction i think you need a bigger wiim. Remember the wiim pro plus has a great inbuilt dac.