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Dedicated DAC recommendation (up to 300 USD/EUR) to replace Dragonfly Black dongle

I am convinced that the sinad measurement serve as placebo for these chart watchers. Everytime, it sounds like ass, they run over to the graph and look at the sinad, the placebo dose kicks in and their lives become ok until it's time for the next placebo hit.
There is a consensus here that such outstanding statements require outstanding evidence.
 
Thank you. I'm really learning a lot here.

And yet. And yet...!
Part of me still wants to believe that there is a magic price:quality point or sweet spot that is 'just right' for me.
I know the two are in no way comparable, but imagine we are talking about wine and not DACs for a moment.
I might say: "I find some 5 EUR wines are a bit rough, 15 EUR wines are pretty nice. But I can't taste the difference between a 50 EUR wine and a 500 EUR wine".
So in that case, and for me alone, my 'sweet spot' would be somewhere between 15 and 50 EUR.

The weakness with this analogy is that, in the DAC world, or at least on this forum, most people are saying that all the wine tastes exactly the same.
I am honestly having a hard time getting my head around that concept.

I very much like your analysis of the spurious reasons that people spend more; very nice. Thanks a lot!
Once you understand the basic concept, it becomes much easier.

You have a source as a starting point, file, CD, stream, vinyl and so on.
That is your 100%, you cannot improve on that, and neither can any manufacturer. If someone claims that, that is the first step to snake oil.

The goal would be to get that 100% as unadulterated and unchanged as possible to your ears. That will not work!
The goal is to get as much of the 100% unadulterated and unchanged to your ears as possible, i.e. with the least possible loss.
And that is exactly why you need components that are as transparent as possible.
DACs have been extremely transparent and also very free of coloration for around 10 years.

If a DAC is not free of coloration and "sounds", that is either what the manufacturer wanted, or they have done something wrong. And if you don't really want that, i.e. a change to the original music material, you should stay away from it.

And these developments were, as is often the case, passed on from the best devices to the lowest price ranges. Even the cheap DAC chips achieve excellent measurements these days, and the AK4493 is already one of the best DAC chips on the market.
The good DACs today differ much more in terms of features, interfaces, display, functionality, appearance/feel, etc., than in any sound aspects.

Since I have already compared well over 30 DACs from the current Sinad list (Sinad over 100) here, I can tell you that your money is better invested everywhere, amplifier, speakers, music, etc., than in a more expensive DAC.
 
Once you understand the basic concept, it becomes much easier.

You have a source as a starting point, file, CD, stream, vinyl and so on.
That is your 100%, you cannot improve on that, and neither can any manufacturer. If someone claims that, that is the first step to snake oil.

The goal would be to get that 100% as unadulterated and unchanged as possible to your ears. That will not work!
The goal is to get as much of the 100% unadulterated and unchanged to your ears as possible, i.e. with the least possible loss.
And that is exactly why you need components that are as transparent as possible.
DACs have been extremely transparent and also very free of coloration for around 10 years.

If a DAC is not free of coloration and "sounds", that is either what the manufacturer wanted, or they have done something wrong. And if you don't really want that, i.e. a change to the original music material, you should stay away from it.

And these developments were, as is often the case, passed on from the best devices to the lowest price ranges. Even the cheap DAC chips achieve excellent measurements these days, and the AK4493 is already one of the best DAC chips on the market.
The good DACs today differ much more in terms of features, interfaces, display, functionality, appearance/feel, etc., than in any sound aspects.

Since I have already compared well over 30 DACs from the current Sinad list (Sinad over 100) here, I can tell you that your money is better invested everywhere, amplifier, speakers, music, etc., than in a more expensive DAC.
Thank you. Then it really seems as if I can free up 200 EUR of my 300 EUR budget for other uses. Excellent!
 
Thank you. Then it really seems as if I can free up 200 EUR of my 300 EUR budget for other uses. Excellent!
Hey, look, you can almost get an audiophile USB cable for that. :facepalm:
Just kidding ;)
 
Thank you for the clarification. Quite the devotion to objective measurement only, then? That helps me to understand the forum better.

Not at all. Listening tests are the gold standard, but only if done with the most basic controls, like making sure you can't see what's playing (blind test) and that the levels are matched by voltmeter to within 1%. Otherwise, it is just one anecdotal claim after another. The mind is tricky, and controlling for human bias is just part of the deal if one is going to make extraordinary claims.

I suggest you look into what the measurements show and how how to interpret them in the context of what may be audible and what certainly won't be.

Those who haven't tried to support their anecdotal claims with actual controlled tests often just won't believe the difference they hear has nothing to do with the sound waves. I was in that category until I put myself to the test.


If everything sounds the same, I find it simply amazing that there is so much choice in this sector.

Choice is great. Features, looks, bling factor, inputs, outputs, warranty, etc... All valid reasons to have a variety of products to choose from.

You also have to realize that the industry capitalizes on ignorance. It isn't in their best interest that people realize how home audio electronics are basically a solved problem in terms of generally just doing the job well enough to be considered effectively transparent.

Speakers and other transducers are in a different category, but electronics aren't where you need to dump a bunch of money unless you want to.
 
Not at all. Listening tests are the gold standard, but only if done with the most basic controls, like making sure you can't see what's playing (blind test) and that the levels are matched by voltmeter to within 1%. Otherwise, it is just one anecdotal claim after another. The mind is tricky, and controlling for human bias is just part of the deal if one is going to make extraordinary claims.

I suggest you look into what the measurements show and how how to interpret them in the context of what may be audible and what certainly won't be.

Those who haven't tried to support their anecdotal claims with actual controlled tests often just won't believe the difference they hear has nothing to do with the sound waves. I was in that category until I put myself to the test.




Choice is great. Features, looks, bling factor, inputs, outputs, warranty, etc... All valid reasons to have a variety of products to choose from.

You also have to realize that the industry capitalizes on ignorance. It isn't in their best interest that people realize how home audio electronics are basically a solved problem in terms of generally just doing the job well enough to be considered effectively transparent.

Speakers and transducers are in a different category, but electronics aren't where you need to dump a bunch of money unless you want to.
Thank you. This has been a real voyage of discovery for me.
I now feel confident enough that I can keep my budget to 100 EUR without compromising on sound quality.
Honestly, that comes as a revelation. Thanks a lot!
 
No one has ever said that higher Sinad numers result in better sound. No one!
I know these Chinese guys have a good ear for music... So, I am guessing this is how the conversation goes at the Shenzhen factory.

Shenzen Engineer: Boss, it sounds like ass

Shenzhen Boss (looking at sales numbers): Boy, you get me that golfing panther chart and sinad or else!!!

Poor Shenzhen Engineer: Boss, but, it sounds like ass...

Shenzhen Boss (looking at sales numbers): Boy, I breathe fire on you and throw you out of this building if you don't get me golf panther before COB today.

Poor Shenzhen Engineer: Sure Boss, whatever you say Boss... I got keeds to feed...

And the rest is history, lol.
 
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