I’m sure you trust your perceptions but I think it’s the tail wagging the dog. You probably find vividness and believability because you know it’s an LP, and not the other way around.
Now there’s nothing I can probably say to change your mind. If you can, you should subject yourself to this kind of test. Otherwise it’s no different from claiming sound improvement due to cable differences. You might absolutely believe that (I met plenty of people who do) but it’s just bias.
I understand your suspicion. Though I think you are making a bit too strong a leap there, especially if you are very confident in presuming it's "just bias."
Could the features I describe about some vinyl, and my preference in some cases, be my imagination and bias and expectation effects?
Yes, of course. That's always a possibility. I don't have a scientific level of confidence about it. And not having done a blind test I'm just left to give my thoughts about what you wrote at this point.
The question for me isn't therefore whether it's possible I'm fooling myself (yes it's possible): it's whether it's
more plausible I'm fooling myself, than not.
Good record pressings from the same master of a digital version sound VERY close in sound quality, but across a broad sampling of vinyl where distortion levels vary, there are some slightly wider characteristic differences).
It's not controversial that vinyl often sounds detectably different than digital - it's predicted by theory and born out in much practice. That's one reason why so many here abandoned it
. Which means the claim to identify sonic differences is not
directly comparable to claims made about theoretically unlikely phenomena like sonic differences between AC cables
So the plausibility of my actually hearing real sonic differences are very high.
So the more likely issue of concern is in the cases I prefer an LP, whether I actually prefer it for the sonic reasons I feel I'm detecting, and would prefer it in a blind test like the one you mention.
I don't know for sure.
But it remains at least plausible to me that, as there are real differences to be heard between vinyl and digital, that the character of those differences I'm detecting (which vary) are real. I work in sound editing and all day long I am discriminating between the character of sound and using that discrimination to manipulate sound, often in extremely subtle ways (literally matching the "air tones" of rooms sometimes). That doesn't entail I can't be wrong, or that bias and some imagination isn't playing a role both in my record listening AND my work. After all, when I slightly manipulate the volume, or EQ, or compression, or do countless adjustments to alter texture, I could be fooling myself. And yet...it wouldn't seem reasonable to doubt-in-most-cases these abilities - it seems to work
So on a subjective level of plausibility, while I COULD always be wrong about the differences I'm detecting playing a vinyl record, I'm about to use precisely the same sound discrimination to work on a movie FX soundtrack, and it seems to produce real results. So I find it plausible that if I'm detecting a sharpening of the sound, or brightness, dullness, or a bit more distortion or texture when playing a vinyl record, that they are there, just like I detect sonic distinctions in my work.
(I'd also note that my preference - or perception that vinyl sound quality can be "better" in the ways I describe - is variable. I often find digital to sound better than many of my LPs, and in fact I judge the digital version of the Everything But The Girl album to be better overall. That doesn't entail there isn't still some perceptual error happening, but it DOES suggest it isn't strictly the expectation effect "because it's vinyl it will sound better.")
Anyway...all that is actually somewhat beside the point. Remember that I had responded to your claim that one would only be enjoying vinyl in terms of "nostalgia," not sound quality etc. I still think that is a superficial take that doesn't hold water, at least in my case.
Whether in blind tests digital would eek out a win over LP, it's still the case LPs can sound fantastic. As even those who don't play vinyl will often point out. For one thing, note that Inner Sound referenced blinded tests between CD and LP, and his conclusion from that work "
I would echo @MattHooper above when he says, "They sounded very similar - I would frankly find anyone declaring the Obvious Sonic Superiority of the digital to be...exaggerating at the least."
Which supports the idea that vinyl can sound excellent. And so you can't presume someone is simply moved by "nostalgia" rather than actually appreciating good sound quality.
Pre-covid, I regularly had many guests who listened to my sound system and it didn't matter which I played as a demo - a good record pressing or a digital version - it still rendered many speechless "looked like they've seen a ghost" at the sound quality, where they say things like "
I never knew music could sound so real!"
I just received some pressings of some excellent older rock band recordings. Words I'd just to describe the sound would be: clear, detailed, vivid, punchy, spacious - impressions typically associated with excellent sound quality. What is more plausible? That, as someone who cares about sound quality and works evaluating sound all day long, manipulating just those characteristics, that I'm utterly mistaken about the sound? Or that it has those features? To argue it's more plausible than not that I'm wrong, you'd have to demonstrate that vinyl can not produce sound with those qualities, or is highly unlikely to produce such qualities. That isn't something you could actually demonstrate, which leaves my impressions as more plausible than not.
It's possible I'd select the digital version in a blind test as sounding even better. But even granting that, it doesn't entail that the the vinyl can't also sound excellent.
The point being that with vinyl I'm often appreciating excellent sound quality - often vivid, dimensional, punchy etc - qualities I also get from digital. So mere nostalgia doesn't cover what I'm getting out of vinyl.
Please don’t get me wrong - I am sure I have plenty of biases myself.
No one here ever need apologize for suggesting an impression is due to bias. It's something we all have to take in to consideration, no matter what the claim or argument.
For example, I think there’s a difference between sound reproduction caused by the DAC used, but I haven’t blind tested this with a proper level match and this perception could well fall apart if I ever had the time and the equipment to test it. The thing I do, being aware of that, is to never spend too much money on a DAC
I view digital as a solved problem and have zero interest in discussion of new DACs.
But ironically, in the 90's I seemed to hear distinct differences between some CDPs and DACs I had on hand. Doubt was cast on this by the engineer-types on the audio news sites, and I had doubts myself, so I did two sets of blind tests (level matched at speaker terminals with voltmeter etc) and aced them easily for detecting differences between the CDPs/DAC. Weird. But I don't care about it these days.