I'm not so concerned with the he4xx or the Sundara, I've got my Aryas to listen to. Would the Arya sound the same as the 4xx or Sundara with Oratory's target. They would, by your logic. I'd disagree though. I can even tell the difference between my amp's high and low gain with the Aryas. I cannot do that with the he400i 2020s in my closet, my Anandas either.
-
WANTED: Happy members who like to discuss audio and other topics related to our interest. Desire to learn and share knowledge of science required. There are many reviews of audio hardware and expert members to help answer your questions. Click here to have your audio equipment measured for free!
Hifiman Sundara Review (headphone)
- Thread starter amirm
- Start date
Even then, FR at one's eardrum is likely to remain at least a little bit different for various reasons (sample variation, undesirable HPTF variations, variations and inaccuracies in the measurement process from which the EQ profiles were based for, etc.).
https://www.rtings.com/headphones/tests/sound-quality/frequency-response-consistency
https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...snt-like-this-curve.19668/page-22#post-844726
So it's quite entirely possible that to someone in particular their own copy of the Sundara still sounds better than their copy of something else after applying EQ presets to the same target.
solderdude
Grand Contributor
I would dare to bet that when these are all EQ'ed exactly flat on a specific industry standard test fixture, even when handled by an acoustical engineer, and EQ would be used that makes it exactly flat on that rig (concerning FR at a specific test level) that, even though they will sound very similar tonally, they can still be told apart by an experienced listener (perhaps not by the general public) and one can have a preference for a headphone.
A very understandable and logically sounding standpoint from a measurement only standpoint. With the right compensation (which is what I am not sure about as generic/average doesn't seem to be correct) it seems the best approach.
Fit, comfort, way they are worn, different pinnae, different seal, different feel on the head... it all matters for the experience.
But... let's be clear about this they will all have a very similar tonal signature which may be pleasant to those liking that exact signature.
That may well be a large portion of the unsuspecting public but may not be every audiophile or folks that prefer a specific tonal preference for whatever reason.
Last edited:
There are a lot of issues with the "They sound the same if both EQ'd"
- It ignores that not all headphones share drivers like in the sense of SR60e vs SR225e.
- Planar/BA/Estat use different diaphragms that don't suffer the bass rest issue that Dynamic driver suffer from on songs with bass notes that suddenly stop & start. The ER2SE sounds dirty to the ER4SR despite having the same SR tuning.
- aged pads, Driver tweaks, etc can play a role too.
Very well stated, where even I could understand it.
I never said they would sound exactly the same. Do not misrepresent my argument, which was that claiming the Sundara to be "much better" even with EQ, when no attempt was even made to EQ them to the same target, is a completely invalid claim that should not be entertained on a forum concerned with scientific truth in audio.
Just looked through your recent posts and they're full of these baseless anecdotal claims. If you want to pump these out and receive nodding approval from audiophiles, there are plenty of forums out there for that *coughheadficough*. This is not one of them. Of course, I presume you level-matched the low and high gain to within 0.1 dB and did the test blind to remove the confounding variables of loudness and sighted bias, yes? And why are you now talking about the HE4XX when we were talking about the H400i?
Last edited:
I am's what I am's and horses for courses... I won't any longer be drawn into "conversations" that really don't matter in the grand scheme of things. All is well, be at peace. Enjoy your he400i's and let others enjoy theirs. Sundara is still a better overall HP listening wise vs he400i/he4xx to many people, IMO.
I've been looking for headphones that can be good for producing music which translates well to most systems. One of my krk's died and I had to move to a new place that has no hope of acoustic treatment. I've been looking at multiple reviews of the sundara 2020's and other headphones, and these seem to be my best bet in 2021. Despite these headphones consistently being reviewed for studio work and being mostly neutral, it appears as though you have to EQ these headphones because Hifiman is a bit inconsistent with tuning. I have never eq'd headphones before, and dont know what tools I should use for it. For studio monitors and acoustic treatment, an omnidirectional mic is often used until treating the room itself eq's the monitors. But for headphones, I obviously need to use a digital or hardware chained equalizer, and i'm not sure what hardware people normally use to record the audio.
Download and install Equalizer APO and Peace GUI for free to enable system-wide parametric EQing, then apply these settings, made by an acoustic (and former audio) engineer who specialises in headphones. Make sure to set the gain of band 1 to 7 dB (not 0 dB as in the table) for linear bass as written at the bottom right. This EQs to the Harman headphone frequency response target, which is based on the sound of a good speaker in a good room, so should result in the most preferred and neutral sound for the majority of listeners and systems.
Last edited:
Are we seeing the same exact tuning issue on every Sundara 2020?
Obviously each unit will not have exactly the same frequency response, but from the measurements I've seen its unit variance seems pretty low (often the case with HifiMan headphones), not any larger than its positional frequency response variance (small changes in FR due to positional differences when worn), which is also low for the Sundara 2020. Plus, Oratory (the acoustic engineer who made the measurements and EQ I linked to) usually measures several units of each model (not certain if he has for the Sundara 2020 mind) and at varying positions on the measuring rig then averages to account for any unit/positional variance. So his EQ should translate well to your specific unit.
Im seeing nearly the same low frequency data with independent reviewers/testers, so you are most likely correct.
I have had the sundara for about a year, if I listen to it directly from my DAP ibasso dx220 it sounds good enough, if I connect it to my topping A90 and dac gustard x16 the listening is tiring and not pleasant, maybe for the sundara you need an amp that goes good at low impedance?
- Joined
- Oct 25, 2019
- Messages
- 11,111
- Likes
- 14,774
The a90 can handle high and low impedance just fine . More likely you just play louder on the desktop stack .
I just my 'open box' Sundaras from HifiMan. I paid around 310 Euros (all in = transport/customs : delivery 7 days !). I translated Amir's Roon EQ for my RMI ADI DAC 2 FS and boy!!!!! these phones sound great with those EQ settings (and seriously less so without). I will have to test them a bit further but they seem to beat my Focal Clears in deep bass retrieval and detail restitution - which is quite an achievement! On top of that, I find them really comfortable on my head (much better in that respect for me than the HE4XXs). Anyway, thank you Amir, for testing these cans and providing these EQ setting which really seem to agree with my ears.
kindly link me the equalization for the sundara?
devopsprodude
Senior Member
You need to use EQ then or something, I think, because I get superlative results with Sundara cans and X16/A90 stack...an absolute joy to listen to.
Similar threads
