What are some ribbons microphones with big bang for the buck?

[Blumlein 88]

SNR is better here. So any of you folks have some recommendations for ribbons that are unusually good for the price? Some AEA's and such might be great, but beyond my budget. The only ribbons I have are some Avantone CR-14's which have inflated in price quite a bit since I purchased them. So let us keep it under $1k for the budget, and something half that would be better. Are there some sleeper ribbons mics out there?

 

[DVDdoug]

I don't know, and this is MOSTLY a music listening-consuming forum. (There are some folks here who do production/recording.)

Other than thermal noise (which depends on resistance and temperature) passive mics don't generate noise. There are some active ribbons, but most are passive so they'll all be about the same and about the same as dynamic mics. Most of the electrical noise comes from the preamp and the low output (signal) tends to result in a lower signal-to-noise ratio than a condenser mic. A lot of people use a Cloudlifter or FEThead (which are supposed to be low-noise) and I don't know how that compares to the head amp inside a condenser.

Most of a microphone's "sound" is frequency response and that can be tweaked with EQ. There is also polar response (and off-axis frequency response) and proximity effect. I believe ribbons are "naturally" figure-8.

I think you'll have to listen for yourself unless you know what kind of frequency response you want.

You might want to try Antares Mic Mod which is supposed to make one mic sound like another (as long as both are in the database).

 

[Matt_Holland]

Sontronics

 

[Cbdb2]

Most of a microphone's "sound" is frequency response and that can be tweaked with EQ. There is also polar response (and off-axis frequency response) and proximity effect. I believe ribbons are "naturally" figure-8.

A large part of a mic sound is its off axis freq. response (like speakers). Cardio mics can become omni at lower freqs. and thIs varies mic to mic. Even Omnis have some hi freq directionality.

U 87 Ai - Studio Microphone

The Neumann U 87 Ai is probably the best-known and most frequently used studio microphone the world over.

www.neumann.com

I've only tried a couple of ribbons for recording, found them rather noisey. There great for recording 2' in front of a horn but not 3' in front of an acoustic guitar. Because of there very low sensitivity and impedance (the impedance of a strip of foil) mic pre amps always added a lot of noise. This was a long time ago so I don't know if mic pres have improved enough to correct this problem.

 

[DVDdoug]

P.S.
This isn't about ribbons but you might find it interesting: Where Does The Tone In A Microphone Come From?

 

[1st.Virtual.Me]

Here is a place where you can audition 300 mics in recordings of instruments and vocals

Audio Test Kitchen | Compare the sound of 300 microphones

Find the best microphone for you. Try microphones before you buy on the world's largest online microphone shootout. Listen to unbiased comparison recordings. Compare standardized frequency response graphs. Created by Grammy-winning engineers and renown scientists.

www.audiotestkitchen.com

 

[SIY]

I had great results from the Cascade X-15 stereo ribbon. It's in the $500 range. I upgraded the transformers which was a small improvement but took the price closer to $1k.

 

[TimVG]

NoHype for sure!

 

[Cbdb2]

Here is a place where you can audition 300 mics in recordings of instruments and vocals

Audio Test Kitchen | Compare the sound of 300 microphones

Find the best microphone for you. Try microphones before you buy on the world's largest online microphone shootout. Listen to unbiased comparison recordings. Compare standardized frequency response graphs. Created by Grammy-winning engineers and renown scientists.

www.audiotestkitchen.com

Thats a bit like auditioning speakers over utube. Every mic has a different optimal distance and angle from the source. Using each mic at the same location angle is misleading. Often mic A will sound better on kick drum A (or vocal or whatever) while mic B will sound better on kick drum B.

 

[Cbdb2]

I had great results from the Cascade X-15 stereo ribbon. It's in the $500 range. I upgraded the transformers which was a small improvement but took the price closer to $1k.

How's the noise level?

 

[SIY]

How's the noise level?

Reasonably low- I built my own preamp for it, admittedly, but it seems to work. Output level is decent for the genre (~2.5mV/Pa). The shock mount needed a bit of help to get rid of subsonics, but that's relatively inexpensive.

 

[1st.Virtual.Me]

Thats a bit like auditioning speakers over utube. Every mic has a different optimal distance and angle from the source. Using each mic at the same location angle is misleading. Often mic A will sound better on kick drum A (or vocal or whatever) while mic B will sound better on kick drum B.

ATK is a great resource. Give it try!
Fully scientific process. It can help narrow down the decision making.
Correct that once you choose some mics to try, that you should test them on your own in several of your own studio scenarios.

 

[earlevel]

SNR is better here. So any of you folks have some recommendations for ribbons that are unusually good for the price? Some AEA's and such might be great, but beyond my budget. The only ribbons I have are some Avantone CR-14's which have inflated in price quite a bit since I purchased them. So let us keep it under $1k for the budget, and something half that would be better. Are there some sleeper ribbons mics out there?

What is the use case? "SNR is better here"—are you saying you're looking for a ribbon mainly for SNR? What are you using for a pre? They are quiet, but need a lot of boost. I'm not sure if you win on SNR (I'm literally not sure, I'd need to check). Dynamics are quieter than LDCs, but generally lose due to the gain needed.

Royer R10 is very popular, at $599. My buddy picked one up a couple of months ago for guitar amp mic'ing in a Silent Sister (enclosed cabinet). I've heard vocals on one that sounded pretty good, though it's not marketed for that.

I have an old Beyer M500 from the '80s, haven't used it in decades but it's a different animal. I demo's several AEAs at this past NAMM Show, sounded smooth and mellow, of course at huge $$$$. I'm more inclined to LDCs (I have Soyuz, AKG, Lauten).

Best bet for discussion is one of the dedicate musician and pro audio forums, of course. People love discussing mics (including myself). Are you close to any place where you can try mics out? If not there are [edit: got cut off...picking back up...] places that will ship for 2-week or 30-day trials, have to pay shipping if you don't keep.

 

[Blumlein 88]

Sorry for the confusion. I was referring to posting here vs pro audio forums as having a better snr. Not snr of the microphone. I have mostly ldc and sdc mics.

 

[earlevel]

Sorry for the confusion. I was referring to posting here vs pro audio forums as having a better snr. Not snr of the microphone. I have mostly ldc and sdc mics.

Ah—well, I think even there mic discussions probably tend towards a better SNR than other topics (like which sample rate sounds better—LOL). I think here the noise is low, but probably the signal too, as far as specialized mics.

Still curious, though—what use case? Not that I have any more input on ribbons than I've given, but maybe someone will.

 

[Blumlein 88]

Ah—well, I think even there mic discussions probably tend towards a better SNR than other topics (like which sample rate sounds better—LOL). I think here the noise is low, but probably the signal too, as far as specialized mics.

Still curious, though—what use case? Not that I have any more input on ribbons than I've given, but maybe someone will.

I do a little recording. I've mostly used condensers and favor relatively neutral mics. I'd rather do that and EQ if I want something else. However, ribbons have something of a sound which is more often than not appealing. Most multi-pattern condensers are large diaphragm, and tend to have some peaks in the upper midrange and lower treble. I rarely find that is what I'm after. It can be okay with some voices. EQ on a good condenser to mimic ribbons sort of works. I think the ribbons have a better off-axis polar pattern, but then again many also don't have so much at higher frequencies anyway.

So if some good ones are in my budget to try out, I'd like to try a couple. Now I'm not sure if I want the old stereotypical ribbon sound or some of the newer more neutral ribbon sound. Would I be just as well off with an SDC figure 8 vs neutral ribbon (like a Samar AL95 or se Electronics VR1 or VR2)? This kind of question from what I've seen is where the noise level goes up on pro audio forums. So the signal level here might be lower, and possibly insufficient, but the noise level to decide is easier to manage. One thing I wonder about is using a figure 8 condenser is how resonances complicate the EQ. Ribbons tend not to have those resonances. Probably just need to do some more hard thinking about that issue. I've had a Shure KSM 44a and have a KSM 44. I've had the Lewitt LCT 640 TS which I liked better than the KSM. I also have a couple CAD M179s. I like Shure KSM 32s and wish they made a multi-polar version of that (which is an MDC electret). Maybe I simply need the budget version of a Schoeps Colette with MK8 capsules, if such a thing exists.

 

[DonH56]

A decent ribbon needs a really good preamp as you know. For the record, I have little recent experience with ribbons, and do not currently own one (condensers, mostly).

I'd be tempted to get a Royer or AEA under the "buy once, cry once" theory. For inexpensive, the Royer R-10 seems popular, but Sweetwater lists a bunch of very inexpensive models. I've no idea their performance; I'd call/email Sweetwater and ask. I have used them for decades and (usually) trust their advice.

Ribbon Microphones - Sweetwater

Looking for Ribbon Microphones? Sweetwater has FREE Shipping and FREE Sweetwater Support for Ribbon Microphones!

www.sweetwater.com

 

[Blumlein 88]

A large part of a mic sound is its off axis freq. response (like speakers). Cardio mics can become omni at lower freqs. and thIs varies mic to mic. Even Omnis have some hi freq directionality.

U 87 Ai - Studio Microphone

The Neumann U 87 Ai is probably the best-known and most frequently used studio microphone the world over.

www.neumann.com

I've only tried a couple of ribbons for recording, found them rather noisey. There great for recording 2' in front of a horn but not 3' in front of an acoustic guitar. Because of there very low sensitivity and impedance (the impedance of a strip of foil) mic pre amps always added a lot of noise. This was a long time ago so I don't know if mic pres have improved enough to correct this problem.

Ribbons aren't noisy anyway just the preamps. They are low sensitivity which puts the onus on the preamps. I have the Avantone CR-14 and I've used them with Focusrite Scarlett 1st gen 18i20 which had a bit more gain than later gens. That is workable. With Focusrite Forte (which has quiet pres and high gain), with a Babyface and Zen Tour its fine. I've recorded small groups without noise being a problem.

 

[earlevel]

I do a little recording. I've mostly used condensers and favor relatively neutral mics. I'd rather do that and EQ if I want something else. However, ribbons have something of a sound which is more often than not appealing. Most multi-pattern condensers are large diaphragm, and tend to have some peaks in the upper midrange and lower treble. I rarely find that is what I'm after. It can be okay with some voices. EQ on a good condenser to mimic ribbons sort of works. I think the ribbons have a better off-axis polar pattern, but then again many also don't have so much at higher frequencies anyway.

So if some good ones are in my budget to try out, I'd like to try a couple. Now I'm not sure if I want the old stereotypical ribbon sound or some of the newer more neutral ribbon sound. Would I be just as well off with an SDC figure 8 vs neutral ribbon (like a Samar AL95 or se Electronics VR1 or VR2)? This kind of question from what I've seen is where the noise level goes up on pro audio forums. So the signal level here might be lower, and possibly insufficient, but the noise level to decide is easier to manage. One thing I wonder about is using a figure 8 condenser is how resonances complicate the EQ. Ribbons tend not to have those resonances. Probably just need to do some more hard thinking about that issue. I've had a Shure KSM 44a and have a KSM 44. I've had the Lewitt LCT 640 TS which I liked better than the KSM. I also have a couple CAD M179s. I like Shure KSM 32s and wish they made a multi-polar version of that (which is an MDC electret). Maybe I simply need the budget version of a Schoeps Colette with MK8 capsules, if such a thing exists.

I hear ya...

Well, the AEAs the I tried definitely had that sweet sound, but you know when Vintage King's "best seller" for AEA (A440) is $6799, it tells you something. The AEA R84 is $1079 ("limited time offer!"), a budget stretcher, at Sweetwater, but it has 41 reviews that look pretty enthusiastic. They have R92 for $989.10 (limited time), they claim it has the least proximity effect.

 

[ThatSoundsGood]

I've used many of the ribbon mic's on the market. I prefer the SE VR stuff in most cases since they perform as well as more expensive mic's but are robust and affordable.. Royer's are great, but the figure 8 has to be managed. The Beyer M160 is really great. The Shure KSM313 was massively three dimensional sounding the only time I used it.