ATC speakers / Monitors

[goat76]

Generally speaking, in business it is important to take risks, and not just play safe, because someone else will take that risk and innovate and, as a result, our business will go down. If we will play it safe, we won't win the game. How does this apply to the studio monitors sector?

“Playing it safe” is not always a bad thing you know.

ATC's idea is to manufacture robust and reliable monitors that are easily repaired and parts that are easily replaced, and hopefully be able to do so for many years to come, without being dependent on third-party components that may go out of production anytime soon. For the studio business they serve, this strategy makes all the sense in the world.

The only thing that matters for people working in audio studios is translation, no innovations are needed for that to happen as it already works. I can't think of anything needed beyond that.

P.S. I’m not even sure ATC wants to “take over the world”, I think they are happy being a small speaker manufacturer with a family business mentality and I hope that will work well for them going forward.

 

[YSC]

Yeah, around 7 times more profit than ATC.

I didn't expected that though personally I prefer how Genelec goes by, but as mostly pro companies I would expect them to be kind of like even handed in revenue or at least per employee income

 

[Arnas]

“Playing it safe” is not always a bad thing you know.

ATC's idea is to manufacture robust and reliable monitors that are easily repaired and parts that are easily replaced, and hopefully be able to do so for many years to come, without being dependent on third-party components that may go out of production anytime soon. For the studio business they serve, this strategy makes all the sense in the world.

The only thing that matters for people working in audio studios is translation, no innovations are needed for that to happen as it already works. I can't think of anything needed beyond that.

P.S. I’m not even sure ATC wants to “take over the world”, I think they are happy being a small speaker manufacturer with a family business mentality and I hope that will work well for them going forward.

Dont be naive they "play safe" cause innovation costs a ton of money so this company not only saves here, but they are super overpriced for specs and are just look cheap.
Chord or this company is like super expensive shoes or watch... No real benefits, just bragging rights.

 

[Purité Audio]

I am not sure ATC would ‘innovate’ even if they could aren’t they now hamstrung by their own customer demographic?
Keith

 

[goat76]

Dont be naive they "play safe" cause innovation costs a ton of money so this company not only saves here, but they are super overpriced for specs and are just look cheap.
Chord or this company is like super expensive shoes or watch... No real benefits, just bragging rights.

Ti hi! That was a cute reply.

 

[maxijazz]

I have some numbers to ponder.
They employ 73 people on the production line. In 2023 they had a turnover of £7.2 million in their pro business. We don't know what models are selling best, but we can assume that probably somewhere around the middle of their catalogue -
SCM25, 45, 50 - UK prices respectively, £7400, £10300, £14000, with the average around £10000.
With this in mind we can then assume that they have sold around 700 pair of pro speakers. I know it's only a wild guess, but the numbers (employees and turnover) are real.

They sell through dealers, which most likely have margin of 30-40%. Also, probably they sell tons of smaller speakers (SCM25), so their average price will be closer to £9k.
That should rise number of sold pairs to 1100/year.

 

[goat76]

It's amazing that a 6.5 inch 3-way sells for $9500

An interesting thing I noticed when buying both my ATC C3C center speaker and the SCM11s recently is that ATC doesn't seem to have many things in storage ready for shipment which can indicate that they are working at their maximum capacity. As the distributor in my country didn't have these speakers in storage (with the finish I wanted) it was a waiting time of about 6 weeks for the center speaker and 4 weeks for the 11s. When I finally received them they were manufactured just about one week(!) before I received them.

Availability and demand are two factors that set the retail price besides other factors, there's no reason for ATC to sell their speakers under market value. They are also the only ones who fully know what the right price for their products is if they are going to be able to just stay afloat in the market or reach their expected revenue. It's a business after all.

If they can sell every single SCM25 they can manufacture and are working at their maximum capacity, the retail price of $9500 may even be under the true market value for that speaker.

 

[Avp1]

An interesting thing I noticed when buying both my ATC C3C center speaker and the SCM11s recently is that ATC doesn't seem to have many things in storage ready for shipment which can indicate that they are working at their maximum capacity. As the distributor in my country didn't have these speakers in storage (with the finish I wanted) it was a waiting time of about 6 weeks for the center speaker and 4 weeks for the 11s. When I finally received them they were manufactured just about one week(!) before I received them.

Availability and demand are two factors that set the retail price besides other factors, there's no reason for ATC to sell their speakers under market value. They are also the only ones who fully know what the right price for their products is if they are going to be able to just stay afloat in the market or reach their expected revenue. It's a business after all.

If they can sell every single SCM25 they can manufacture and are working at their maximum capacity, the retail price of $9500 may even be under the true market value for that speaker.

ATC does not make speakers to fill the storage. They adjust production numbers based on demand. Actually their large speakers (50 and up) were always made on order and buyer had to wait from few weeks to few months for them to be manufactured.

 

[Leeken]

My 40s were made on order,8 week wait,which I understand is about normal for Atc,good business practice tbf.

 

[Avp1]

My 40s were made on order,8 week wait,which I understand is about normal for Atc,good business practice tbf.

They would not be able to operate that way if they did not make almost all components in house.

 

[DSJR]

I am not sure ATC would ‘innovate’ even if they could aren’t they now hamstrung by their own customer demographic?
Keith

Not sure they can now the guiding light (who started it all in the 70's, at least the first version of the mid dome) is gone. I'm sure the current design chap does his best, but it's a bit like Spendor's gone in the last ten years or so, kind-of trading on an even older reputation at ever higher dealer-friendly prices.

 

[Pearljam5000]

The old Genelec mid looks similar to the ATC one

 

[RobL]

The old Genelec mid looks similar to the ATC one
View attachment 354052

Yep, it is an ATC dome.

 

[DSJR]

In olden days though, ATC saved the 'better' version of the mid driver for their own monitors. I don't know if that's still the case.

 

[RobL]

In olden days though, ATC saved the 'better' version of the mid driver for their own monitors. I don't know if that's still the case.

Yes, they supplied Genelec with a 4 ohm version of the sm75-150. The above speaker was built in the late 80’s.

 

[DSJR]

I seem to recall their own drivers were rated for their use at nearer 16 ohms and old memories suggest their MOS-FET based amp packs preferred a higher impedance load (can't really remember now but I think that's what I was told). The claim was alao that the amps delivered a goodly part of their outout in class A (as in biased quite high) but mine never ran hot when idling, just a warm feeling -

- unlike my 'out to grass' HH VX300 amp with MOS-FETs which idles almost hot (bias and offsets set according to the service sheet and the unrepaired channel barely wanted tweaking so I think I have it right).

 

[dfuller]

In olden days though, ATC saved the 'better' version of the mid driver for their own monitors. I don't know if that's still the case.

Well, they don't let anybody use their drivers any more, so there is that.

The old Genelec mid looks similar to the ATC one

That'd be because it is. ATC used to OEM drivers for more than a few companies - PMC, ProAc, Genelec, Neumann among others. The last true "Main" that Neumann made (the fabulous O500C) uses a SM75-150. Crossed at 520hz and 2.8khz with 8th order FIR filters.

 

[Hexspa]

I think the wall of monitors can be okay for the initial selection, you can probably hear certain characteristics you don’t like about some of the monitors and scrap them out of the list. But for the remaining selection of monitors you pinned down as interesting to you, a more controlled acoustic environment with the monitors properly set up for the final verdict is likely needed. Better yet a home demo if that's possible.

I really wonder if that’s true. It would be a fascinating test to have listeners select blind from The Wall then put them in a Harman-esque arrangement to see if they can even tell which was which. Frankly, I doubt it - especially without some kind of foreknowledge about the specs like bass extension or a significant linear deviation. My hypothesis is that there’s too many variables with the distance, angle, confirmation bias, playback level, and modal effects to make a remotely fair comparison.

 

[dfuller]

I really wonder if that’s true. It would be a fascinating test to have listeners select blind from The Wall then put them in a Harman-esque arrangement to see if they can even tell which was which. Frankly, I doubt it - especially without some kind of foreknowledge about the specs like bass extension or a significant linear deviation. My hypothesis is that there’s too many variables with the distance, angle, confirmation bias, playback level, and modal effects to make a remotely fair comparison.

My experience doing that is that I can winnow out what will obviously not work for me, but beyond that... not super useful.

I didn't expected that though personally I prefer how Genelec goes by, but as mostly pro companies I would expect them to be kind of like even handed in revenue or at least per employee income

No, it makes sense - Genelec operates at a (mostly) lower price point than ATC. The entry level Genelecs (8030Cs, arguably - anything smaller is not really full range enough) are priced more or less in line with Neumann, where ATC's entry level 2-way passives, the SCM12 Pros/SCM11s are priced higher than KH120 IIs and need a fairly beefy amp given their middling sensitivity around 85dB 2.83V/1m.

ATC's "real" (read: active 3-way) line of speakers is much more expensive.

 

[Avp1]

I really wonder if that’s true. It would be a fascinating test to have listeners select blind from The Wall then put them in a Harman-esque arrangement to see if they can even tell which was which. Frankly, I doubt it - especially without some kind of foreknowledge about the specs like bass extension or a significant linear deviation. My hypothesis is that there’s too many variables with the distance, angle, confirmation bias, playback level, and modal effects to make a remotely fair comparison.

Every time I go to audio show, it takes me less than a minute to decide if speakers playing in the room are not good for me or they are worth to spend some time to listen. And most speakers sound different. Over time I learned how to identify specific speaker design pattern based on listening. It is not 100% accurate but well above random choosing.