I need to recalibrate my head, in a space where people are open to discussing technical aspects of audio and questioning whether it's really possible to hear something, a opposed to feeling insulted that anyone should question it. Not to disparage a useful discussion board, I think "GS" is close enough for those curious, then no one need ask. But this is more about checking out this space and people.
I questioned the ability to hear the bottom couple of bits of 24-bit. I'll briefly give the reason, for context, but I don't want to dwell on it: The typically way music is recorded results in a multitrack mixdown and likely involves processing in the digital domain. Even if we were able to record perfectly, if we want to produce a 24-bit resulting audio file, we need to either truncate which produces error correlated to the signal (not a good idea in general), or we add a little dither noise to then truncate, resulting in a similar error size but lack of correlation—the error broadband noise, a constant hiss. With normal dither, the means the difference between the original "perfect" signal and the 24-bit dithered output is ± 1 lsb. So that's by I say the last couple of bits—it's pointless to move up from that and question three or four bits.
For now, I won't go into physical limits of the electronics (Johnson and shot noise, etc.), or the dynamic range of the ear (not my expertise, but it seems if we set our maximum listening volume to a tolerable level, according to typical hearing info it seems like ~140 dB SPL down from that would be not easy to hear, to understate it).
So, I'm asking whether people think the lowest couple of bits of 24-bit audio can be heard, and why or why not. Related to what I've already said, such questions might be whether we can tell the difference between the original ("perfect") audio and the truncated or dithered versions, between 24-bit truncated and dithered versions, or even the naked nulls (the difference) between any of these. Or simply hear a known test signal of that level.
5-bit sample sweep tone
16-bit sample sweep tone
24-bit sample sweep tone
24-bit is the one you want to listen to, but you should familiarize yourself with the tone by hearing the 5-bit so you know what to listen for. The 16-bit is there too, for fun.
I'll link the an old article containing them, because you'll probably want to download at the least the 24-bit so you can play or view outside of your browser—the direct links might be awkward to download from, depending on browser: Perspective on dither
I just want to see what people have to say, maybe discuss.
I questioned the ability to hear the bottom couple of bits of 24-bit. I'll briefly give the reason, for context, but I don't want to dwell on it: The typically way music is recorded results in a multitrack mixdown and likely involves processing in the digital domain. Even if we were able to record perfectly, if we want to produce a 24-bit resulting audio file, we need to either truncate which produces error correlated to the signal (not a good idea in general), or we add a little dither noise to then truncate, resulting in a similar error size but lack of correlation—the error broadband noise, a constant hiss. With normal dither, the means the difference between the original "perfect" signal and the 24-bit dithered output is ± 1 lsb. So that's by I say the last couple of bits—it's pointless to move up from that and question three or four bits.
For now, I won't go into physical limits of the electronics (Johnson and shot noise, etc.), or the dynamic range of the ear (not my expertise, but it seems if we set our maximum listening volume to a tolerable level, according to typical hearing info it seems like ~140 dB SPL down from that would be not easy to hear, to understate it).
So, I'm asking whether people think the lowest couple of bits of 24-bit audio can be heard, and why or why not. Related to what I've already said, such questions might be whether we can tell the difference between the original ("perfect") audio and the truncated or dithered versions, between 24-bit truncated and dithered versions, or even the naked nulls (the difference) between any of these. Or simply hear a known test signal of that level.
5-bit sample sweep tone
16-bit sample sweep tone
24-bit sample sweep tone
24-bit is the one you want to listen to, but you should familiarize yourself with the tone by hearing the 5-bit so you know what to listen for. The 16-bit is there too, for fun.
I'll link the an old article containing them, because you'll probably want to download at the least the 24-bit so you can play or view outside of your browser—the direct links might be awkward to download from, depending on browser: Perspective on dither
I just want to see what people have to say, maybe discuss.