Why not more external USB DACs and/or AIOs with MIC in?

[Lupin]

Companies like SMSL, Topping and Gustard all have many USB DACs in their lineup and honestly I think the USB DAC segment is (getting) saturated with minimal differences between different models.

However when you look at USB DACs/AIOs with MIC in there are not so many choices.
Most obvious choices are the Schiit Fulla/Hel and the Mayflower Electronics ARC MKII. Those are all marketed as "gaming" devices and targeted at the "gaming" audience. Why don't companies like Topping, SMSL and the like release a DAC/AIO with MIC in?

Especially now in 2021 with the COVID-19 pandemic going on working from home is very common. Many companies state that they will continue supporting/encouraging working from home after COVID-19 as studies show the positive effects of working from home.
More and more people are therefor in need of a home setup that is capable of audio/video meetings which includes a microphone.

Personally I believe there is a market for an Topping/SMSL USB DAC/AIO with MIC in that is not geared/marketed towards "gaming". Such a DAC/AIO would be far more interesting to me than yet another USB DAC that now has a 3dB higher SINAD and a slightly different display.

Are there more people interested in such a DAC/AIO?
It would be something to stand out in an otherwise saturated DAC market imho.

 

[LTig]

For a mic you need an ADC as well. And there are tons of them available in a vast price range, just not in the hifi market. Look for USB audio interfaces in the pro audio market.

 

[Lupin]

Of course there are options out there like USB interfaces.. but that brings an extra box which requires power so power cable or adapter which needs additional poweroutlet available and prolly some extra set of drivers to install.

Why not have everything conveniently in one box with one software control panel?

To me at least that would be far more interesting/usable/practical than just another DAC with 3dB higher SINAD then the last which you will not notice in any way.

 

[Dion_Sinewave]

I use this: https://www.sounddevices.com/product/usbpre-2/

Excellent device, lots of IO. Broadcast grade Mic pre. And loop function for measurements

 

[Trell]

Of course there are options out there like USB interfaces.. but that brings an extra box which requires power so power cable or adapter which needs additional poweroutlet available and prolly some extra set of drivers to install.

Why not have everything conveniently in one box with one software control panel?

To me at least that would be far more interesting/usable/practical than just another DAC with 3dB higher SINAD then the last which you will not notice in any way.

If an audio device like MOTU M2 is powerful enough for your headphones, your good to go. There is also the newly released RME UCX II with a more powerful headphone amp (not tested yet) along with a ton of other features but also a with price tag to match.

 

[Lupin]

If an audio device like MOTU M2 is powerful enough for your headphones, your good to go.

Poor DAC performance with IMD hump and poor linearity paired with a very weak HP amplifier... Don't see how this would be an alternative for a DAC/AIO with MIC in combo I proposed.

 

[Berwhale]

Why wouldn't you just buy a decent USB microphone?

 

[Trell]

Poor DAC performance with IMD hump and poor linearity paired with a very weak HP amplifier... Don't see how this would be an alternative for a DAC/AIO with MIC in combo I proposed.

Then you are out of luck until RME releases a new version of RME ADI-2 PRO BE that has a mic preamp, not that you'll hear any difference unless your headphones needs more power or uses RME features like PEQ, Dynamic Loudness, Auto Ref level, ...

 

[Zensō]

Of course there are options out there like USB interfaces.. but that brings an extra box which requires power so power cable or adapter which needs additional poweroutlet available and prolly some extra set of drivers to install.

Why not have everything conveniently in one box with one software control panel?

To me at least that would be far more interesting/usable/practical than just another DAC with 3dB higher SINAD then the last which you will not notice in any way.

Why is it an extra box? An audio interface (DAC+ADC) replaces the DAC. Here’s a nice one for desktop use:

https://www.rme-audio.de/babyface-pro-fs.html

Of course they’re more expensive than simple DACs because they’re more complex and provide much more flexibility.

 

[Frgirard]

Companies like SMSL, Topping and Gustard all have many USB DACs in their lineup and honestly I think the USB DAC segment is (getting) saturated with minimal differences between different models.

However when you look at USB DACs/AIOs with MIC in there are not so many choices.
Most obvious choices are the Schiit Fulla/Hel and the Mayflower Electronics ARC MKII. Those are all marketed as "gaming" devices and targeted at the "gaming" audience. Why don't companies like Topping, SMSL and the like release a DAC/AIO with MIC in?

Especially now in 2021 with the COVID-19 pandemic going on working from home is very common. Many companies state that they will continue supporting/encouraging working from home after COVID-19 as studies show the positive effects of working from home.
More and more people are therefor in need of a home setup that is capable of audio/video meetings which includes a microphone.

Personally I believe there is a market for an Topping/SMSL USB DAC/AIO with MIC in that is not geared/marketed towards "gaming". Such a DAC/AIO would be far more interesting to me than yet another USB DAC that now has a 3dB higher SINAD and a slightly different display.

Are there more people interested in such a DAC/AIO?
It would be something to stand out in an otherwise saturated DAC market imho.

why ? because you have audio interfaces.

 

[Frgirard]

Why is it an extra box? An audio interface (DAC+ADC) replaces the DAC. Here’s a nice one for desktop use:

https://www.rme-audio.de/babyface-pro-fs.html

Of course they’re more expensive than simple DACs because they’re more complex and provide much more flexibility.

expensive ?

https://www.thomann.de/fr/usb_audio_interfaces.html

 

[Lupin]

Why is it an extra box? An audio interface (DAC+ADC) replaces the DAC. Here’s a nice one for desktop use:

https://www.rme-audio.de/babyface-pro-fs.html

Of course they’re more expensive than simple DACs because they’re more complex and provide much more flexibility.

To be clear I'm aware of the existence of audio interfaces but that is a different targeted audience imho.
They have mediocre DAC performance, very weak HP output or a combination of the two. The audio interfaces that score at least "meh" in both areas are very expensive as they come with tons of features which are not important nor need for your video conference every now and then.

I wouldn't direct people to an very expensive audio interface with tons of features they will never use or need when people show intrest in the Hel/Fulla or ARC MKII.

Of course you can think of 1001 work around ways like add-on USB microphone.. that was never the point..

I still think there is market for let say an D30Pro with a decent ADC baked in for people who want Hi-Fi audio DAC and need a microphone input for the occasional video conference.

 

[Zensō]

To be clear I'm aware of the existence of audio interfaces but that is a different targeted audience imho.
They have mediocre DAC performance, very weak HP output or a combination of the two. The audio interfaces that score at least "meh" in both areas are very expensive as they come with tons of features which are not important nor need for your video conference every now and then.

I wouldn't direct people to an very expensive audio interface with tons of features they will never use or need when people show intrest in the Hel/Fulla or ARC MKII.

Of course you can think of 1001 work around ways like add-on USB microphone.. that was never the point..

I still think there is market for let say an D30Pro with a decent ADC baked in for people who want Hi-Fi audio DAC and need a microphone input for the occasional video conference.

Yeah, I now understand what you’re saying: we need something between the Schiit Hel and a full blown interface like the Babyface, specifically targeting the work-at-home market. Seems like a niche that Schiit or Topping could exploit. I use the Babyface in this way (among many other uses), so it seems like an obvious choice to me, but agreed, it’s probably overkill for many.

It seems that perhaps the Schiit Hel meets the requirements you’re listing (Schiit even describes it as being for “communications”, among other things). Besides the obvious “gamer” aesthetic, what do you see as missing from the Hel?

 

[Trell]

To be clear I'm aware of the existence of audio interfaces but that is a different targeted audience imho.
They have mediocre DAC performance, very weak HP output or a combination of the two. The audio interfaces that score at least "meh" in both areas are very expensive as they come with tons of features which are not important nor need for your video conference every now and then.

I wouldn't direct people to an very expensive audio interface with tons of features they will never use or need when people show intrest in the Hel/Fulla or ARC MKII.

Of course you can think of 1001 work around ways like add-on USB microphone.. that was never the point..

I still think there is market for let say an D30Pro with a decent ADC baked in for people who want Hi-Fi audio DAC and need a microphone input for the occasional video conference.

My first reaction when I read your first post is that you're asking for an audio interface and apparently I'm not alone thinking that. There are several inexpensive audio interfaces reviewed on ASR that are audibly transparent with very good mic preamps, however many audio interfaces have weak headphone amps but if they drive your headphones loud enough who cares?

My initial reason for replacing my MOTU M2 (that I use several times a week for work video calls) was to have a more powerful headphone amp for my Beyerdynamics DT-880. I wanted a "one-applicance-solution" on my desktop but ended up with keeping my M2 for mic duties and adding the RME-2 DAC FS for its features.

Have a look of a picture I made for how front addressed mic differs from side addressed in terms of size when doing video calls. Looks awful with an unwieldy cable mess?

Edit: Grammar, spelling. I think

 

[Berwhale]

I use one of these for VC calls...

Logitech H820e Wireless Headset with Noise-Cancelling Mic (I don't know why the main picture shows a cable, it's a DECT6 wireless headset with 100m range!)

If my camera is off, I can wander into the kitchen to make a cup of tea without anyone noticing

 

[Frgirard]

They have mediocre DAC performance, very weak HP output or a combination of the two. The audio interfaces that score at least "meh" in both areas are very expensive as they come with tons of features which are not important nor need for your video conference every now and then.

The audiophile bias in two sentences. Do an ABX.

 

[Zensō]

My first reaction when I read your first post is that you're asking for an audio interface and apparently I'm not alone thinking that. There are several inexpensive audio interfaces reviewed on ASR that are audibly transparent with very good mic preamps, however many audio interfaces have weak headphone amps but if they drive your headphones loud enough who cares?

My initial reason for replacing my MOTU M2 (that I use several times a week for work video calls) was to have a more powerful headphone amp for my Beyerdynamics DT-880. I wanted a "one-applicance-solution" on my desktop but ended up with keeping my M2 for mic duties and adding the RME-2 DAC FS for its features.

Have a look of a picture I made for how front addressed mic differs from side addressed in terms of size when doing video calls. Looks awful with an unwieldy cable mess?

Edit: Grammar, spelling. I think
View attachment 149901

Nice setup. Which Genelecs are those?

 

[Trell]

Nice setup. Which Genelecs are those?

They are 8330A along with 7360 subwoofer, calibrated with GLM. On my left is my wife place and she also have 8830A, except the subwoofer.

This is a home office which have seen more than a little use during the pandemic and is also a major reason (excuse ? ) why we have upgraded so many things.

 

[Paolo]

Companies like SMSL, Topping and Gustard all have many USB DACs in their lineup and honestly I think the USB DAC segment is (getting) saturated with minimal differences between different models.

However when you look at USB DACs/AIOs with MIC in there are not so many choices.
Most obvious choices are the Schiit Fulla/Hel and the Mayflower Electronics ARC MKII. Those are all marketed as "gaming" devices and targeted at the "gaming" audience. Why don't companies like Topping, SMSL and the like release a DAC/AIO with MIC in?

Especially now in 2021 with the COVID-19 pandemic going on working from home is very common. Many companies state that they will continue supporting/encouraging working from home after COVID-19 as studies show the positive effects of working from home.
More and more people are therefor in need of a home setup that is capable of audio/video meetings which includes a microphone.

Personally I believe there is a market for an Topping/SMSL USB DAC/AIO with MIC in that is not geared/marketed towards "gaming". Such a DAC/AIO would be far more interesting to me than yet another USB DAC that now has a 3dB higher SINAD and a slightly different display.

Are there more people interested in such a DAC/AIO?
It would be something to stand out in an otherwise saturated DAC market imho.

It would certainly be handy. All the replies talking about other solutions seems to miss the point, the OP is asking for a sensible all in one aimed at the consumer who want convenient quality in a home office situation.
RME could do the perfect product, they already have all the tech required. I would instantly buy a new ADI2 DAC with mic inputs and maybe (pretty please) a bit more power.

 

[Frgirard]

It would certainly be handy. All the replies talking about other solutions seems to miss the point, the OP is asking for a sensible all in one aimed at the consumer who want convenient quality in a home office situation.
RME could do the perfect product, they already have all the tech required. I would instantly buy a new ADI2 DAC with mic inputs and maybe (pretty please) a bit more power.

RME made product for professional not audiophile.

How much audiophile needs a mic ?