Topping E30 volume control from the player and the dac itself

[jzpchen]

I just bought a Topping E30. It sounds great. I am very happy. My use case is to play Apple Music hi-res from iPad Pro via USB-C to E30 (Preamp mode), and then to Bryston Amp (with no preamp). You can change volume at two places: 1) iPad Pro Music App and 2) E30 remote control. I would like to know how the volume control is done and their sound quality implication. Here are my assumptions: A. The volume control on iPad Pro Apple Music will reduce the bits in 16/24 bits before sending to E30 and B) the volume control in E30 will take advantage of AK4493 internal 32bit signal processing within its noise floor. If these are the correct assumptions, I assume I should keep Apple Music at full volume and do volume control in E30. Does this make sense?

Another possibility is that Apple Music volume control actually sends the volume control info to the E30. E30 could add that info along with the volume info from its own remote and then sum them together to control the volume in AK4493. I think that would be preferred. I am not sure the choice made by Topping.

 

[McFly]

You wouldn’t be able to tell a difference either way, but I’d use the topping.

also GREATLY reduces the risk of volume slider/app max volume, which I think is the bigger problem here.

I moved away from software volume control a while back, just had too many max volume incidents. I prefer to have a hardware preamp volume control now. Separately, We had an incident where our TV (eARC to an AVR) turned on in the middle of the night at full volume. That was the last straw.

 

[jzpchen]

You wouldn’t be able to tell a difference either way, but I’d use the topping.

also GREATLY reduces the risk of volume slider/app max volume, which I think is the bigger problem here.

I moved away from software volume control a while back, just had too many max volume incidents. I prefer to have a hardware preamp volume control now. Separately, We had an incident where our TV (eARC to an AVR) turned on in the middle of the night at full volume. That was the last straw.

Thanks McFly! So you are saying today's audio system quality are so high that I don't have to worry too much about which volume control to use. In general I agree. Since I usually use -38dB in a small listening room, I am trying to be mindful and not to chop too many bits. So I will use E30 volume control. Separately, I have a L30 on order. If I take your advice further, I should use L30's volume control? Maybe set -30dB on L30 and -8dB on E30 to take advantage of E30's remote control to fine tune.

 

[NiagaraPete]

I use my iPad via lightning to USB-B to DAC and the volume is fixed on the iPad so I need to use volume on the DAC. However with the Apple connector I can use both.

 

[NiagaraPete]

Thanks McFly! So you are saying today's audio system quality are so high that I don't have to worry too much about which volume control to use. In general I agree. Since I usually use -38dB in a small listening room, I am trying to be mindful and not to chop too many bits. So I will use E30 volume control. Separately, I have a L30 on order. If I take your advice further, I should use L30's volume control? Maybe set -30dB on L30 and -8dB on E30 to take advantage of E30's remote control to fine tune.

One other thing that I'm still looking at is apparently the adapter kit is limited to "48 kHz, 24-bit audio output". https://www.apple.com/ca/shop/product/HKKP2ZM/A/belkin-lightning-audio-charge-rockstar

 

[jzpchen]

One other thing that I'm still looking at is apparently the adapter kit is limited to "48 kHz, 24-bit audio output". https://www.apple.com/ca/shop/product/HKKP2ZM/A/belkin-lightning-audio-charge-rockstar

I am surprised the lighting/USB-C will limit to 24/48. If connect to E30, it will be able to tell you easily. Apple's Lightning to USB 3 Camera Adapter should go beyond 48kHz. https://www.apple.com/ca/shop/product/MK0W2AM/A/lightning-to-usb-3-camera-adapter

 

[NiagaraPete]

I am surprised the lighting/USB-C will limit to 24/48. If connect to E30, it will be able to tell you easily. Apple's Lightning to USB 3 Camera Adapter should go beyond 48kHz. https://www.apple.com/ca/shop/product/MK0W2AM/A/lightning-to-usb-3-camera-adapter

I've not had a chance to test it yet. Apple does not give a spec on the camera kit. I have been mostly streaming with Air Play and it has the same spec.

 

[virtua]

You wouldn’t be able to tell a difference either way, but I’d use the topping.

also GREATLY reduces the risk of volume slider/app max volume, which I think is the bigger problem here.

I moved away from software volume control a while back, just had too many max volume incidents. I prefer to have a hardware preamp volume control now. Separately, We had an incident where our TV (eARC to an AVR) turned on in the middle of the night at full volume. That was the last straw.

I completely agree with this. I know a lot of people here are proponents of adjusting volume in software as it is technically the most optimal way - but I'm not quite on board with it because you have to absolutely ensure each of your sources volumes are set appropriately in software before playback. One day it might reset, and you might forget about checking it. Also, given you want to maximise the signal received by your amplifier (to ensure highest SNR), having a mishap with software volume is just too much of a risk which heavily outweighs any perceived benefit if at all, especially given the absolute sheer power that is available to us with our amplifiers these days.

When you set your volume with a preamp or through your DAC you never need to worry about this.

 

[McFly]

When you set your volume with a preamp or through your DAC you never need to worry about this.

Haha, unless you sit on the remote when you slump into the couch. See how fast you can get back up with a plate brimming with food or a bowl of soup

 

[goldistan]

The dynamic range reduction caused by digital volume control is a non-issue.
Your ears have the same degraded dynamic range when listening at low volume.
If anything I want the DAC to have AGC at low volume to reduce DR even more.