Topping D90SE Review (Balanced DAC)

[b4nt]

Do you have the right to look at the measurements and think it's good, why can't I see the quality of components?

How do you want to "see" the quality of all those little surface mounted devices?

 

[caocaolatre199x]

It's different now because it's now fully driven by verified deisgns not something that just please someone's eyes.

Say it out what components. Please be straight forward. I'm not here to guess and waste my time.

toroidal transformers are gone, ES9038 pro is also half the price of AK4499, no more Accusilicon oscillators, no more linear regulators from Texas Instrument, no Nichicon high quality filter capacitors, and the price remains unchanged. It's clear that it's just the measurement results and they're benefiting a lot from this website.

Okay, I understand. We should not argue even more stress. Good evening fun

 

[b4nt]

Okay, I understand. We should not argue even more stress. Good evening fun

Toroïdals and linear regulators are much less environmental/climate frendly. The world is changing, technologies and designs also... You should perhaps better wonder why it took so much time

 

[JohnYang1997]

Okay, I understand. We should not argue even more stress. Good evening fun

So opa1612, which is much better performing replaced the regulators and capacitors. 1612 is more expensive than the regulator and much much more expensive than the caps. Accusilicon is not needed it actually performed worse so why would I use it? Transformer needs user to switch voltage. You know that there are many cases the transformer burned. Also the heat generated would be greater. Let alone heavier. And yes meanwell supply is actually more expensive. It provides less ripple current in the design and just overall better. There are isolated supply modules or each rail that's more expensive than the ti regulator. 4499 is not double the price of 9038pro. Different is less than 20%. And akm factory was on fire. You basically all based on false information or assumptions. Yeah you may like the components on D70s better. But that's it. I'm glad you like it. But yeah.
Last bit on pricing. Component prices has gone up. Microcontroller has gone 10 times the prices. CPLD is more than 5 times. Other stuff are rising 10-50% including oscillators opamps DAC chips etc.

 

[caocaolatre199x]

Toroïdals and linear regulators are much less environmental/climate frendly. The world is changing, technologies and designs also... You should perhaps better wonder why it took so much time

Yes, when we want to prove something convinced with everyone. The Environmental is probably the best "convincing" reason.

 

[caocaolatre199x]

So opa1612, which is much better performing replaced the regulators and capacitors. 1612 is more expensive than the regulator and much much more expensive than the caps. Accusilicon is not needed it actually performed worse so why would I use it? Transformer needs user to switch voltage. You know that there are many cases the transformer burned. Also the heat generated would be greater. Let alone heavier. And yes meanwell supply is actually more expensive. It provides less ripple current in the design and just overall better. There are isolated supply modules or each rail that's more expensive than the ti regulator. 4499 is not double the price of 9038pro. Different is less than 20%. And akm factory was on fire. You basically all based on false information or assumptions. Yeah you may like the components on D70s better. But that's it. I'm glad you like it. But yeah.

I refer to the price of components on Mouser. Do you think Altera CPLD is really necessary? The latest XMOS XU216 can take over all CPLD work on the circuit board. I think it should also be removed.

 

[b4nt]

Yes, when we want to prove something convinced with everyone. The Environmental is probably the best "convincing" reason.

It is also a fact. Why shall a DAC need 20 to 30W if it can perform the same or better using only 5 to 10W? The same for components weights and sizes. Why would you need bigger ones? All will end in trash cans.

Other would complain cause a DAC is limited to 4V on XLR, would like to see 5V. Have you any such complains or features requests to share?

 

[caocaolatre199x]

It is also a fact. Why shall a DAC need 20 to 30W if it can perform the same or better using only 5 to 10W? The same for components weights and sizes. Why would you need bigger ones? All will end in trash cans.

At first I said I wanted the cost of building components to be equivalent to the price.

Other would complain cause a DAC is limited to 4V on XLR, would like to see 5V. Have you any such complains or features requests to share?

4 Vrms is the industry standard. However, amplifiers like Singxer SA-1 or SMSL SP400 will be able to control high impedance headphones with greater capacity when receiving 5 Vrms inputs.

 

[JohnYang1997]

I refer to the price of components on Mouser. Do you think Altera CPLD is really necessary? The latest XMOS XU216 can take over all CPLD work on the circuit board. I think it should also be removed.

No it can't.... ESS doesn't even sell on mouser so does it make it priceless...

 

[caocaolatre199x]

No it can't...

Anyway I was still impressed with D70s. Hope to see the company's quality DAC in the future.

ESS doesn't even sell on mouser so does it make it priceless...

Mouser has been confirmed by ESS as an official sales channel.
https://www.esstech.com/sales-offices/

 

[Veri]

Last bit on pricing. Component prices has gone up. Microcontroller has gone 10 times the prices. CPLD is more than 5 times. Other stuff are rising 10-50% including oscillators opamps DAC chips etc.

I refer to the price of components on Mouser. Do you think Altera CPLD is really necessary? The latest XMOS XU216 can take over all CPLD work on the circuit board. I think it should also be removed.

So two things. One, world is changing especially since corona, supply chain got MAJOR hits and the designs of devices will evolve with it. So many manufacturers are having all kinds of supply issues and trying to be creative to solve it. That's just the current situation.
Secondly, the prices you see on Mouser or digikey are not the prices bigger manufacturers pay. So when you say AKM chip is double the price, just not true. Consumer prices, supply & demand, AKM fire causing price to go up, etc etc..

 

[JohnYang1997]

Anyway I was still impressed with D70s. Hope to see the company's quality DAC in the future.

Mouser has been confirmed by ESS as an official sales channel.
https://www.esstech.com/sales-offices/

Previously, I forgot.

 

[JohnYang1997]

So two things. One, world is changing especially since corona, supply chain got MAJOR hits and the designs of devices will evolve with it. So many manufacturers are having all kinds of supply issues and trying to be creative to solve it. That's just the current situation.
Secondly, the prices you see on Mouser or digikey are not the prices bigger manufacturers pay. So when you say AKM chip is double the price, just not true. Consumer prices, supply & demand, AKM fire causing price to go up, etc etc..

Another thing that drives silicon prices insane is electric cars.

 

[Roland68]

At first I said I wanted the cost of building components to be equivalent to the price.

Ok, then at least now I understand what you mean.
I can only see high quality components in the D90se, not cheap ones.
But you mean the price on the BOM list for the device.
There are certainly other devices with many more "high-quality" components at a lower price.
There is then just less left for the development work for the device.

 

[nagster]

why do you buy D90SE? Why you don't buy SMSL Su-9 or Gustard x16 for only half price?

I bought the D90SE because it is the most attractive.
One of the reasons is that it is the most linear as far as I know.
The SMSL Su-9 and Gustard x16 are cheaper, but there was no reason to buy them.

 

[David_M]

Another thing that drives silicon prices insane is electric cars.

What? Please explain ...

 

[JohnYang1997]

What? Please explain ...

Each electric cars use crap ton of silicons and they are producing crap ton of them. And all of this is basically a new area that consumes silicons which is exploding in mass. It's directly responsible for microcontroller shortage and power devices. It's also responsible for limiting the yield that can be used to produce other chips hence indirectly affecting everything.

 

[respice finem]

We have the wrong phase of the "pork cycle" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pork_cycle
Probably, in not so far future, capacities will be stocked up so availability will rise and prices will fall.

That said, there are exceptions, like currently prolonged GPU and large HDD/SSD shortage, both driven by a) mining and b) reluctance of the manufacturers to invest, facing a volatile situation (COVID).

 

[boXem]

Each electric cars use crap ton of silicons and they are producing crap ton of them. And all of this is basically a new area that consumes silicons which is exploding in mass. It's directly responsible for microcontroller shortage and power devices. It's also responsible for limiting the yield that can be used to produce other chips hence indirectly affecting everything.

1.Electric cars do not use more microcontrollers than *normal* cars.
2.Automotive use about 10% of the worldwide silicon production.

 

[caocaolatre199x]

I bought the D90SE because it is the most attractive.
One of the reasons is that it is the most linear as far as I know.
The SMSL Su-9 and Gustard x16 are cheaper, but there was no reason to buy them.

I suppose in case you have not read this review, are you sure about your assertion? You are confident to distinguish 2-3dBs SINAD?