The New King?

[JohnYang1997]

I can't believe the progress made and value for money with all the latest Chinese DAC offerings.
And.......no matter what you buy........... there seems to be something just around the corner that measures even better or is just as good but cheaper with handier features.

When will it end???

It will never end. But currently I would say it's the best that can be achieved with current dac chip offerings for single chip implementation.

 

[linger63]

It will never end. But currently I would say it's the best that can be achieved with current dac chip offerings for single chip implementation.

My X26 Pro has dual..........I guess we will see quad next........

 

[JohnYang1997]

My X26 Pro has dual..........I guess we will see quad next........

Yet this is better in every other way with just one chip?

 

[TheTalbotHound]

Yet this is better in every other way with just one chip?

X26 pro has significantly better crosstalk and gets very close in all other areas to the d90se. Can't wait to see what topping can do with a dual or quad 9038pro based design though

 

[half_dog]

SGD1 and KTB use the mobile Q2M. Hence my question, can't imagine this is not based on 9038Pro, but the 90kHz BW pattern is a recurring thing with 9038Q2M chip (be it due to filter characteristics or ASRC settings, I'm not sure).

See for example:

The line in red is tone board. The others are all ESS 9038 Pro, tends to perform better, way flatter line. Yet this D90 SE does the same thing as KTB.

Puzzling.

https://cdn.l7audiolab.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/05/FTZoom.jpg (coudn'd upload the image)

Huuum... It seems my observation about the apodizing (mode 1) were corrects xD

 

[Veri]

View attachment 130910

https://cdn.l7audiolab.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/05/FTZoom.jpg (coudn'd upload the image)

Huuum... It seems my observation about the apodizing (mode 1) were corrects xD

Looks like it's not just 9038 mobile but PRO too, dependant on filter choice. Yes thanks to @WolfX-700 doing the research

 

[half_dog]

Looks like it's not just 9038 mobile but PRO too, dependant on filter choice. Yes thanks to @WolfX-700 doing the research

That's true, we need to thanks @WolfX-700 for his work. And I feeling a little relief because I have been waiting for a long time to someone to check the filters influences over "THD+N vs frequency". I have done something similar but my interface does not have the resolution to give a validated result... Anyway, it is finally done.
Now I'm curious to see if it possible to get a better curve from D10s, KTB 1 with the filter being switched to fast linear or fast minimum phase...

 

[DHT 845]

Hmmm by love?

So could you also love the idea of making Amp90 monoblocks as a complementary for D90 and Pre90 audio devices?

 

[bennetng]

That's true, we need to thanks @WolfX-700 for his work. And I feeling a little relief because I have been waiting for a long time to someone to check the filters influences over "THD+N vs frequency". I have done something similar but my interface does not have the resolution to give a validated result... Anyway, it is finally done.
Now I'm curious to see if it possible to get a better curve from D10s, KTB 1 with the filter being switched to fast linear or fast minimum phase...

https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...r-mirror-images-short-study.20318/post-685684
https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...view-audio-interface.19911/page-6#post-674665
https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...tests-welcome-to-add-others.16332/post-533137

I can write more if people have further interest in these things.

 

[TheTalbotHound]

That's true, we need to thanks @WolfX-700 for his work. And I feeling a little relief because I have been waiting for a long time to someone to check the filters influences over "THD+N vs frequency". I have done something similar but my interface does not have the resolution to give a validated result... Anyway, it is finally done.
Now I'm curious to see if it possible to get a better curve from D10s, KTB 1 with the filter being switched to fast linear or fast minimum phase...

I'm guessing that switching any 9038 based DAC to the fast linear, fast minimum or hybrid phase filters will produce the same result. Real question now is how much of a change to THD+n vs Frequency do different filter choices make on other DAC chips, let's say AKM, Cirrus, and Burr Brown chips.

 

[Evgeniy]

"THD with 7 different filters"

thanks, nice illustration about source of ultrasound distorsions with ESS 9038 with different filters.

 

[devink]

Really wish Topping would make an 8ch multichannel DAC. This thing looks amazing.

 

[AdamG]

Really wish Topping would make an 8ch multichannel DAC. This thing looks amazing.

Welcome Aboard @devink.

 

[Lupin]

With measurements like this one begs the question... why get anything else for a Dac.. I mean wow.

Because one can get a DAC for less then half the price of what this unit is probably going to cost that is also completely transparent and will not sound better.

Besides that ~6 months from now there will be a new "best thing" which will measure even better.. Then everyone will need to "upgrade" again.. never ending circle of "upgrading" there will always be something "better" somewhere down the road.

It's nothing personal but I just don't get it, especially from the ASR crowd.
People who already have a perfectly transparent DAC are lining up to buy this as soon as they can.. I kinda expected that behavior on Head-Fi not on ASR.

 

[dpippel]

Because one can get a DAC for less then half the price of what this unit is probably going to cost that is also completely transparent and will not sound better.

Besides that ~6 months from now there will be a new "best thing" which will measure even better.. Then everyone will need to "upgrade" again.. never ending circle of "upgrading" there will always be something "better" somewhere down the road.

It's nothing personal but I just don't get it, especially from the ASR crowd.
People who already have a perfectly transparent DAC are lining up to buy this as soon as they can.. I kinda expected that behavior on Head-Fi not on ASR.

I agree. I'd also like to see these manufacturers (I'm looking at you, Topping and S.M.S.L) spend more time tightening up design review and testing, manufacturing processes, improving QC, and refining existing products instead of constantly releasing shiny new bits to try and keep people chasing the carrot.

 

[JohnYang1997]

Because one can get a DAC for less then half the price of what this unit is probably going to cost that is also completely transparent and will not sound better.

Besides that ~6 months from now there will be a new "best thing" which will measure even better.. Then everyone will need to "upgrade" again.. never ending circle of "upgrading" there will always be something "better" somewhere down the road.

It's nothing personal but I just don't get it, especially from the ASR crowd.
People who already have a perfectly transparent DAC are lining up to buy this as soon as they can.. I kinda expected that behavior on Head-Fi not on ASR.

It's natural that one wants to get the new hot thing. And for a market it's not a bad thing.
It's when people are persuade to spend much more than they initially expected that it's bad. And especially when the stuff are snakeoil or blatant fraud. Buying a good performing new toy within the budget is probably ok.

 

[JohnYang1997]

I agree. I'd also like to see some of these manufacturers (I'm looking at you, Topping and S.M.S.L) spend more time tightening up manufacturing processes, improving QC, and refining existing products instead of constantly releasing shiny new bits to try and keep people chasing the carrot.

I agree. But why not both at the same time.

 

[dpippel]

I agree. But why not both at the same time.

Well John, that would be ideal, but IMO with the many issues we've seen time and time again with new DACS and amps, that methodology isn't working as well as it should.

 

[JohnYang1997]

Well John, that would be ideal, but IMO with the many issues we've seen time and time again with new DACS and amps, that methodology isn't working as well as it should.

What I would say is don't put all different companies to the same bucket. We test every single unit on APx555. Sure we aren't perfect, no one is. But we are definitely working a lot more on this than before, even then there's stuff only discovered later on. And things are getting better.

 

[half_dog]

I'm guessing that switching any 9038 based DAC to the fast linear, fast minimum or hybrid phase filters will produce the same result. Real question now is how much of a change to THD+n vs Frequency do different filter choices make on other DAC chips, let's say AKM, Cirrus, and Burr Brown chips.

We already know about the "sharp" filter vide Topping D90, Loxjie D50, SMSL M300, M200 and others AKM AK449X(3,7,9) based DACs - which has enough low noise floor to reveal the curve, Topping E30, I'm looking at you. They have a "peculiar" curve... But yeah, would be nice if we could test all the others filter effects