Topping D30Pro Review (Balanced DAC)

[jmillar]

Isn’t having a volume control on a DAC like having a volume control on a turntable or CD player?

I don’t get it.

Many people connect DACs to power amps or headphone amps. The volume control at the dac becomes the main volume control.

 

[Pan]

It's actually not incredibly hard to reproduce, as I just found. Just set the sample rate to 384kHz, bit depth doesn't matter. I put my phone to my headphone's ear cup to record it, here it is, an intermittent static buzz, for lack of a better description: https://1drv.ms/u/s!AptJOzTSXgG6ns8hqFQwKrcB6j0m4A

Is this what the rest of you are hearing? You may have to turn the volume up. Recorded while watching a YouTube video. Any clues what may be happening here, @JohnYang1997 ?

Sounds exactly like mine.

 

[jmillar]

But that's not soundstage, that's simply channel separation. So unless you want to say channel separation is soundstage, then I suppose that's not what I assumed one talks about.

And when you say "less distortion and noise floor" increases soundstage. Well that's fine, but that then makes soundstage entailed by other concepts, but in tandem amount to a newly combined term like "soundstage". But if that's the case, then zero distortion and noise = maximum soundstage? So if I am playing a recording doing mono, or playing a recording done in a church binuarally (or lets say 7.1 surround sound). Both of them would have identical and maximum soundstage so as long as they both had something like zero noise and distortion hypothetically?

See why it's problematic speaking about soundstage in this way?

Soundstage is the 3D illusion derived from the use of two amps and two speakers. "Stereoscopic" effect is the reason we buy twice as much electronics than absolutely necessary. The fact that we can't measure it doesn't mean it doesn't exist. The best experience so far is to use headphones to listen to an (excellent) binaural recording. The feeling of "being there" and actually locating where each sound seems to be coming from is truly amazing and a real "eye opener". (But of course, binaural headphone listening is a VERY niche market.) But what some marketing people call "holographic" sound (the word "stereoscopic" seems to have lost its sheen) is the core reason we buy "two of everything" in a modern sound system.

The fact that we don't (yet) know how to measure it or find a useful proxy for it doesn't mean that it doesn't exist and that we are not already "paying for the privilege" and buying electronics in pairs. If "imaging" is what it's supposed to do, it should do it well.

 

[aandres_gm]

Thinking about sending it back, not sure if I want a replacement, because chances are it will do the same thing.

 

[Mulder]

The noise error appears to be related to some copies of the D30Pro. It seems to be a manufacturing defect rather than a design defect. I do not have this problem with my D30Pro.

 

[chris719]

I am not sure if this is a defect or what, but CS43198 doesn't really have what I would consider to be a functional digital filter at 384 kHz. I would not recommend using 384 kHz sample rate if you care about quality.

 

[Veri]

I am not sure if this is a defect or what, but CS43198 doesn't really have what I would consider to be a functional digital filter at 384 kHz. I would not recommend using 384 kHz sample rate if you care about quality.

Interesting.

 

[chris719]

Interesting.

Page 130 of the datasheet shows the response in octuple speed mode (384 kHz). Apparently AK4490/3 behave similarly above 192 kHz. Not sure about AK4499 or ES90xx. I think this is why it would be nice to see just a couple tests at higher sample rates, because some people actually use them even if they don't bring audible benefit.

 

[Mulder]

Page 130 of the datasheet shows the response in octuple speed mode (384 kHz). Apparently AK4490/3 behave similarly above 192 kHz. Not sure about AK4499 or ES90xx. I think this is why it would be nice to see just a couple tests at higher sample rates, because some people actually use them even if they don't bring audible benefit.

In the latest firmware update (2.44) a number of completely new filters were added, which from what I understand is not in the chip itself but is an addition made by Topping. How do they work compared to the filters that connect to the chip itself?

 

[chris719]

In the latest firmware update (2.44) a number of completely new filters were added, which from what I understand is not in the chip itself but is an addition made by Topping. How do they work compared to the filters that connect to the chip itself?

Almost guaranteed they are in the chip; it just lets you program custom coefficients. If you don't see a separate DSP or FPGA on the board, it's very unlikely to be external. The CS43198 doesn't actually have an external filter input mode, which makes it even more likely that these filters are just updated coefficients. I suppose you could use an external filter and run the chip at 384 kHz, which is essentially equivalent to a digital filter bypass mode, but I don't know what the performance implications would be. It already shows slightly worse measurements at 192 kHz.

 

[JohnYang1997]

 

[aandres_gm]

I'd really appreciate your input on this noise issue some of us are experiencing. Can we pin this on a defective unit, is the DAC not playing nice with Windows?

 

[JohnYang1997]

I'd really appreciate your input on this noise issue some of us are experiencing. Can we pin this on a defective unit, is the DAC not playing nice with Windows?

We are preparing a firmware update. Hopefully it will fix the 384KHz play back issue for everyone.

For those who are thinking returning the unit, I'm not here to say these things to stop you from returning. You gotta do what you gotta do. If you believe in us, you can hold on to it and wait for the update.

 

[aandres_gm]

We are preparing a firmware update. Hopefully it will fix the 384KHz play back issue for everyone.

For those who are thinking returning the unit, I'm not here to say these things to stop you from returning. You gotta do what you gotta do. If you believe in us, you can hold on to it and wait for the update.

I've said before I bought Topping because of this kind of openness and interaction with the customers. I really liked this from FiiO back in the day, really like it now, so I'll wait. Hopefully the update will fix it!

 

[Pan]

The noise error appears to be related to some copies of the D30Pro. It seems to be a manufacturing defect rather than a design defect. I do not have this problem with my D30Pro.

Sometimes it takes 3 to 4 hours to appear.

 

[Pan]

We are preparing a firmware update. Hopefully it will fix the 384KHz play back issue for everyone.

For those who are thinking returning the unit, I'm not here to say these things to stop you from returning. You gotta do what you gotta do. If you believe in us, you can hold on to it and wait for the update.

I'm keeping this if this is a software issue and it can be solved by firmware. Thank you for replying in this forum, much appreciate your support.

 

[Boxenbau]

We are preparing a firmware update. Hopefully it will fix the 384KHz play back issue for everyone.

For those who are thinking returning the unit, I'm not here to say these things to stop you from returning. You gotta do what you gotta do. If you believe in us, you can hold on to it and wait for the update.

Hello John, may this Firmware Update also solve the music interruption issue which some (including me) reported?
Thank you! BR, Christian

 

[JohnYang1997]

Hello John, may this Firmware Update also solve the music interruption issue which some (including me) reported?
Thank you! BR, Christian

If it's the issue with COAX or TOSLINK and CD player, sorry no.

 

[sindri1980]

Hi @JohnYang1997, sorry for hijacking the current conversation, but I was wondering if it would be possible to offer a firmware update to enable UAC1 mode in this DAC so that it can be used natively with the PS5/Nintendo Switch
That would be super nice and I'm sure that a lot of gamers interested in a high-performing DAC solution would be happy to get this unit.

 

[Veri]

Hi @JohnYang1997, sorry for hijacking the current conversation, but I was wondering if it would be possible to offer a firmware update to enable UAC1 mode in this DAC so that it can be used natively with the PS5/Nintendo Switch

From what I gather from the JDS Atom DAC and its UAC1 firmware, once you flash UAC1 you lose the possibility to re-flash firmware, so you can't go back to UAC2 firmware. That's a bit annoying, especially when buying second-hand you might end up with such a 'permanent' UAC1 unit. I can see why not many companies support such an operation.