McGurk can’t be applied to HiFi

[amirm]

Don’t you all just want to try it and not spend 10k messages debating about measurements. Just get on with your music?

What we want is to not a) read articles from people who have not studied the science and b) come here for validation of their opinion nevertheless. Since you have subjected us to both and hence taking away from our time to enjoy music, I suggest not making this point.

 

[Simon 13th]

JJ is one of our luminaries in audio. He is a world-class expert in audio processing and psychoacoustics. He is an AES Fellow among other accolades: https://www.aes.org/awards/?ID=1338

AES FELLOWSHIP AWARD
James Johnston

The AES recognizes and honors those who have made outstanding contributions to the field of audio in engineering, technology, service, and the arts through its Awards Program.

In 1997, James Johnston was presented with the AES Fellowship Award for significant contributions in the area of bit-rate reduction audio coding.

The fact that you don't know him means you have not spent any time researching the science in audio. I suggest taking caution in your tone as a result.

I watched the first part of the video and I found it BS. I think there is engineering and there is biology and there is an awful lot of what people propose as engineers in hifi , relating to the perception field that relates to hearing and the interactions of ears and brains, which is proposed nonsense.

 

[amirm]

nobody needs provide evidence, that’s the point .

They do if they want to sell to educated customers. And people writing about products in the industry with even a hint of conveying the audio truth to consumers.

 

[amirm]

I watched the first part of the video and I found it BS.

That is because you are uneducated in the field. I suspect you don't go to doctor either and call what he tells you BS as well.

 

[Simon 13th]

I watched the first part of the video and I found it BS. I think there is engineering and there is biology and there is an awful lot of what people propose as engineers in hifi , relating to the perception field that relates to hearing and the interactions of ears and brains, which is proposed nonsense.

also to start of with a seminar saying that you need to blind test because if you are looking out for one character in the sound, you may set it to bias, takes no account of the common sense of listening not to just one criteria. So from a common sense perspective the guy has lost me straight away.

 

[Simon 13th]

That is because you are uneducated in the field. I suspect you don't go to doctor either and call what he tells you BS as well.

I would do if the doctor is talking bulsshit yes.

 

[amirm]

https://www.13thnote.net/2020/07/11/applying-bias-from-the-mcgurk-effect-to-audiophile-hifi/

what do you all think?

I think you need to test yourself for biases before you pen another article like this. It is not hard. Just have a loved one test you blind and see if your sighted views match those when you don't know what is being tested. Until then, you scoring yourself as being right about everything just adds to litter or audio knowledge on the Internet.

 

[abdo123]

you don’t live your life that way when you go to your restaurant that says the ‘best burgers in town’. Bloody prove it mr chef you conman. Lol. This is, understandably, a mistrust with the hifi industry. That’s the problem thay spawns the measuring approach.

at least he's ofering me a decent meal, these companies selling cables for thousands of dollars are literally picking trash from the landfill and serving it as gourmet meals and people are buying anyway.

 

[RickSanchez]

ive revised my opinions on that one.

[Emphasis mine.]

because nobody needs to provide evidence in products they sell

nobody needs provide evidence, that’s the point

I think these quotes speak volumes about what message the OP is trying to communicate in this thread ... on a science-based forum.

 

[Simon 13th]

That is because you are uneducated in the field. I suspect you don't go to doctor either and call what he tells you BS as well.

you don’t start from the premise of believing someone just because they self profess their experience, if what they say has no validity To you. You start from quizzing them and trying to understand the,

someone like Richard Dawkins would put down a lesser known biologist. You don’t trust that other lesser known biologist if what they say has no valid sense to it, so far as your common sense belief is concerned. You look to someone else.

if people are prepared to just accept people for who they are, awards of not, then nobody advances thinking or understanding.

 

[Simon 13th]

I think you need to test yourself for biases before you pen another article like this. It is not hard. Just have a loved one test you blind and see if your sighted views match those when you don't know what is being tested. Until then, you scoring yourself as being right about everything just adds to litter or audio knowledge on the Internet.

ive done it with speaker cables and a friend and abx tests. I got about 7 in a row correct. We stopped as it was stupid.

im not in hifi to be absolutely correct so far as choosing products, in abx tests. It’s just not how people buy and Im not changing that , neither are you Amir.

 

[amirm]

I would do if the doctor is talking bulsshit yes.

How did you determine that? By reading stuff on the Internet with people with zero medical knowledge? Let me give you an example of that which I have told before here.

My doctor prescribed a new medication for me. I started to take it and developed a side effect. I tell my doctor about it and he says, no, that is not related. I research online and find a document by the drug company itself documenting the exact same side effect! In my next visit to my doctor I tell him that I found out the side effect was real. He asked how I had figured that. I said by reading the drug company research. He calmly explained to me that when they do trials for drugs, they document everything that testers experience. That does not mean there is a cause and effect there. Importantly, he and other doctors prescribe this medication in the field have first hand experience with what is typical and not. And that my symptoms were not typical.

Well, later I realized what I had experienced was something else altogether and had nothing to do with that drug. From that point on, I learned not to substitute my lay intuition and Internet searching for real knowledge of science and professional experience. I suggest you adopt the same before you get thrown out of your doctor's office!

 

[voodooless]

I’d love to hear what Richard Dawkins would have to say about your opinions..

 

[Jimbob54]

you don’t start from the premise of believing someone just because they self profess their experience, if what they say has no validity To you. You start from quizzing them and trying to understand the,

someone like Richard Dawkins would put down a lesser known biologist. You don’t trust that other lesser known biologist if what they say has no valid sense to it, so far as your common sense belief is concerned. You look to someone else.

if people are prepared to just accept people for who they are, awards of not, then nobody advances thinking or understanding.

I do wonder if you linked your subscribers to this thread, how they would think it's gone for you?

 

[amirm]

ive done it with speaker cables and a friend and abx tests. I got about 7 in a row correct. We stopped as it was stupid.

Wonderful. Please set up a camera to record this and repeat the test and post it here. Run the test 10 times and fully document the test for us. That, would do you 100 times more good than the diatribe you wrote in that article.

im not in hifi to be absolutely correct so far as choosing products, in abx tests. It’s just not how people buy and Im not changing that , neither are you Amir.

Didn't ask you to run any ABX tests. Just asking how you know you are not impacted by bias. You declaring yourself an A student, doesn't make you so. You have zero credentials in this regard.

 

[Purité Audio]

Credibility? You don’t recommend items you believe are crap? Your review of the Wave High Fidelity Cables makes interesting reading, especially your replies in the comments section.

The comments section is one of the funniest things I have read in a long time, thanks for bringing to my attention.
Keith

 

[amirm]

I think there is engineering and there is biology and there is an awful lot of what people propose as engineers in hifi , relating to the perception field that relates to hearing and the interactions of ears and brains, which is proposed nonsense.

You "think?" Why should we care what you think? We care about what we can prove. Not someone's lay idea that they think this and that.

Everything you think you know has been demonstrated to be wrong. Against that body of evidence, you just want us to accept your views on faith?

 

[Thomas savage]

 

[Simon 13th]

How did you determine that? By reading stuff on the Internet with people with zero medical knowledge? Let me give you an example of that which I have told before here.

My doctor prescribed a new medication for me. I started to take it and developed a side effect. I tell my doctor about it and he says, no, that is not related. I research online and find a document by the drug company itself documenting the exact same side effect! In my next visit to my doctor I tell him that I found out the side effect was real. He asked how I had figured that. I said by reading the drug company research. He calmly explained to me that when they do trials for drugs, they document everything that testers experience. That does not mean there is a cause and effect there. Importantly, he and other doctors prescribe this medication in the field have first hand experience with what is typical and not. And that my symptoms were not typical.

Well, later I realized what I had experienced was something else altogether and had nothing to do with that drug. From that point on, I learned not to substitute my lay intuition and Internet searching for real knowledge of science and professional experience. I suggest you adopt the same before you get thrown out of your doctor's office!

if a doctor tells you that you need your leg fixed and it’s fine then you mistrust them. If a doctor tells you that you need paracetamol for indigestion you’d be right to question them. It makes no sense. That’s the extent here, and it would be a valid comparison to a guy who says that you need to, straight off the bat, blind test on the basis of trying to pick out single characteristics, when I’m listening to the sound as a whole. Just like visual acuity with a pair of glasses, near field, far field, sharpness. And so on. Are you really saying I need to ‘blind test’ the brand of glasses by not looking at the logo when I then try them on my eyes are detecting all these things. It’s an absolutely ludicrous argument as a reason an expert tells you you need to do that, and believe them based on their ‘experience’. It’s vacuous and lacks intelligence Amir.

 

[Simon 13th]

Wonderful. Please set up a camera to record this and repeat the test and post it here. Run the test 10 times and fully document the test for us. That, would do you 100 times more good than the diatribe you wrote in that article.


Didn't ask you to run any ABX tests. Just asking how you know you are not impacted by bias. You declaring yourself an A student, doesn't make you so. You have zero credentials in this regard.

novody is interested Amir, not Darko, Gutenberg and so on. It’s not how reviews get done. You do this site much more credibility if you rated the measured things to subjective listening and how you can use measured factors as legitimate points to consider in purchase, then compare it against what people buy and why with comparisons they make in subjective tests. Apologies if you do that, but watching some of your videos I don’t think you do. That would be much more interesting to both sides.