Which DAC measurements do you like to see next?

[Cahudson42]

None. Until headphones are caught up...

 

[MonarchPolfy]

How about Lavaudio DS200Pro? Specs look OK on paper and Amazon has it for next to nothing every now and then...

 

[thevishnu]

The iFi neo idsd. I use one for just a dac into a Schiit Magnius via xlr. The 1/4" and the 4.4 on the iFi neo idsd is rather sup-par in my opinion, but I am very curious on the measurements otherwise. Sounds quite wonderful on my current stack. (using HD650's and Focal Clear's via xlr out from the Magnius). *side note* Picked up the Magnius after reading the tests and review's on here. So thank you Amir for that!

 

[Veri]

(using HD650's and Focal Clear's via xlr out from the Magnius). *side note* Picked up the Magnius after reading the tests and review's on here. So thank you Amir for that!

Good on you for using it balanced. Sounds like a sweet set-up!

 

[thevishnu]

Good on you for using it balanced. Sounds like a sweet set-up!

Thanks!! I really enjoy the sound. Easy to loose yourself for hours. I decided upon a full xlr set up after hearing a buddies Mackie set up years ago run entirely off a mixer via xlr. I use xlr out to the headphones depending on which one I grab. The HD650'S are a no brainer being they like the power. Other's, such as my older on ear Momentum's are perfectly fine without and no gain added (and are usually the ones I immediately grab out of convenience (whereas the Clear's.... I feel you have to take a shower before hand like I'm on a musical date) I have yet to connect up the 20 year old DT770's, but I don't doubt I'll be unhappy. Thanks again!!

 

[Res-Head]

Starts at 6600$ for SINAD at 90db. Another R2R masterpiece.

because SINAD is the only thing that matters

 

[VintageFlanker]

because SINAD is the only thing that matters

Thanks. Wasn't aware of that.

So, what else that matters?

 

[Res-Head]

Thanks. Wasn't aware of that.

So, what else that matters?

jitter performance, quality of the output stage, type of dither, type of filter.
I got vastly better performance switching out my E30 for an r2r NOS metrum dac - much more organic sounding without any digital harshness.

 

[VintageFlanker]

jitter performance, quality of the output stage, type of dither, type of filter.

OK. So everything that is already measured there. These facts being much more relevant that your subjective, (most probably) biased opinion and listening experience (same applies to mine).

I got vastly better performance switching out my E30 for an r2r NOS metrum dac

No, you did not. You just think you did. Another possibility would be your preference for worse performing and colored (=inaccurate) DACs. Not that big of a deal, but don't claim it is objectively better when it's not. Assuming two DACs would have been proved to sound different, this would just mean that one is much worse than the other.

Welcome there!

In case you missed these:

https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...iles-posting-at-asr-for-the-first-time.17598/

https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/the-audio-science-review-manifesto.9975/

 

[Res-Head]

No, you did not. You just think you did.

Why is it that when somebody hears major undeniable differences in their equipment, folks here will try to tell you that you're dreaming it? Get off your measurements and actually go listen and ... wait for it ... use your ears??

 

[Veri]

Why is it that when somebody hears major undeniable differences in their equipment, folks here will try to tell you that you're dreaming it? Get off your measurements and actually go listen and ... wait for it ... use your ears??

What kind of music do you listen you? 44/48kHz material will start to roll off at 10k and be considerable by 20kHz, due to the filterless NOS design. That alone can explain your preference. But at least there *is* an explanation and not just 'organic sound', lol.

 

[Res-Head]

What kind of music do you listen you? 44/48kHz material will start to roll off at 10k and be considerable by 20kHz, due to the filterless NOS design. That alone can explain your preference. But at least there *is* an explanation and not just 'organic sound', lol.

Varies, sometimes spotify, other times Qobuz hi res files.
I am not particularly concerned with objective explanations of performance as I already know that what I am listening to is the best I have ever heard and that is all I need to know, but for the sake of argument, I have a theory that humans can hear the effects of oversampling/dither and it is generally perceived as "digital sound", and when you remove this oversampling, suddenly things sound more natural. If you can go and demo something like a holo may, denafrips ares, or any of the metrum range, you can hear it for yourself and my hope is that I can save some people from simply believing that sinad is all that matters.

 

[VintageFlanker]

I have a theory that humans can hear the effects of oversampling/dither and it is generally perceived as "digital sound", and when you remove this oversampling, suddenly things sound more natural. If you can go and demo something like a holo may, denafrips ares, or any of the metrum range, you can hear it for yourself and my hope is that I can save some people from simply believing that sinad is all that matters.

I don't know what to say. Publish a paper and become famous.

I am not particularly concerned with objective explanations of performance as I already know that what I am listening to is the best I have ever heard and that is all I need to know

WOW. That is quite something... May I ask what is the all point of your membership, then?

Why is it that when somebody hears major undeniable differences in their equipment, folks here will try to tell you that you're dreaming it? Get off your measurements and actually go listen and ... wait for it ... use your ears??

So, I assume just haven't red my post, nor my links at all. First, nobody here thinks that only SINAD matters. That is your own extrapolation and misunderstanding.

Now, listen:

- There have been hundreds of people before you, who came here and did exactly the same (mistakes). The "use your ears" argument is way off. Everybody does that. Everybody listens to music here. ASR folks don't "listen to graphs"... As they did decades before you and I were born (assuming your age is correct).

- You could actually have heard differences. That is not in question since I don't think all DACs sound the same. I think, however, that all good DAC sound (and have to sound) the same. The E30 is 99.9% audibly transparent, any DAC sounding different is a worse DAC from an objectivist point of view. Get over it: It is. You are right to subjectively prefer the "worse" and the more euphonic/colored one, but this is not objectively better.

- Even, tho: to validate your claims about your (still not mentioned) R2R DAC being better for your ears and tastes, you have to remove any bias which comes with any sighted listening: You have to level match both and listen blind. Period.

major undeniable differences?

You should not use these terms on a science-based forum, when you have not any evidence to back up your claims. Until then, that are all what they are: claims.

Live and learn. Cheers.

 

[Veri]

If you can go and demo something like a holo may, denafrips ares, or any of the metrum range, you can hear it for yourself and my hope is that I can save some people from simply believing that sinad is all that matters.

I did demo holo spring actually which has a filter-off mode. I didn't notice things to be less "digital". Heck, even Zeos auditioned the holo may on youtube, he called it "just another DAC". For once I agree with Zeos

This is what putting off the filter does btw, purple line; -2dB at 14kHz, about -4dB by 20kHz. You are losing high frequency detail. Only the "sharp" filter is what can be seen as correct. The recording/mixing engineers wanted you to hear those high frequencies btw, the NOS DAC is not by any means more 'truthful'. Quite the opposite.

 

[Res-Head]

WOW. That is quite something... May I ask what is the all point of your membership, then?

In order to challenge the rampant misinformation here such as when you sarcastically say "Another R2R masterpiece". Think how many readers you could be turning away from such dacs by saying this. I challenge you to go and actually listen to it and first realise why people buy such things before spouting this nonsense.

ASR on the whole has been quite dangerous to the industry. Companies are now forced to change their designs to accommodate objective parameters which can actually be quite subjectively damaging. How do you think great sinad is achieved? Nested feedback loops do not come without consequence. They kill blackground and anyone with an ear can hear it. I present another example:
Schiit started out by producing fully discrete gear such as the Magni 3+ which sounds better. Then due to shifts in consumer preferences due to this website, they were forced to release the better measuring magni heresy which actually sounds worse. As you go up the price ladder, you will notice that higher end consumers have not been infected by this philosophy because they care about what sounds good and not numbers on a page.

Thanks

 

[VintageFlanker]

I did demo holo spring actually which has a filter-off mode. I didn't notice things to be less "digital". Heck, even Zeos auditioned the holo may on youtube, he called it "just another DAC". For once I agree with Zeos

This is what putting off the filter does btw, purple line; -2dB at 14kHz, about -4dB by 20kHz. You are losing high frequency detail. Only the "sharp" filter is what can be seen as correct. The recording/mixing engineers wanted you to hear those high frequencies btw, the NOS DAC is not by any means more 'truthful'. Quite the opposite.

Unless we do need some research to find out an ideal FR from DACs, in the same idea of the Harman Target for HF... My guessing is that won't happen anytime soon.

 

[Res-Head]

I did demo holo spring actually which has a filter-off mode. I didn't notice things to be less "digital". Heck, even Zeos auditioned the holo may on youtube, he called it "just another DAC". For once I agree with Zeos

Lol @ using Zeos to validate your opinion. He has damaged hearing. Secondly even if he could hear differences, good luck hearing them through a 789

 

[Jimbob54]

In order to challenge the rampant misinformation here such as when you sarcastically say "Another R2R masterpiece". Think how many readers you could be turning away from such dacs by saying this. I challenge you to go and actually listen to it and first realise why people buy such things before spouting this nonsense.

ASR on the whole has been quite dangerous to the industry. Companies are now forced to change their designs to accommodate objective parameters which can actually be quite subjectively damaging. How do you think great sinad is achieved? Nested feedback loops do not come without consequence. They kill blackground and anyone with an ear can hear it. I present another example:
Schiit started out by producing fully discrete gear such as the Magni 3+ which sounds better. Then due to shifts in consumer preferences due to this website, they were forced to release the better measuring magni heresy which actually sounds worse. As you go up the price ladder, you will notice that higher end consumers have not been infected by this philosophy because they care about what sounds good and not numbers on a page.

Thanks

Controlled studies showing said preferences or you are just blowing smoke. Im guessing the Magni 3+ probably wasnt how they started out either.

 

[Jimbob54]

Lol @ using Zeos to validate your opinion. He has damaged hearing. Secondly even if he could hear differences, good luck hearing them through a 789

Go on, tell me what is wrong with a 789. I've got a £1 saying I know what your answer will be . A WHOLE POUND!

 

[VintageFlanker]

In order to challenge the rampant misinformation here such as when you sarcastically say "Another R2R masterpiece".

Excuse me but I can't hold it any longer: Who the hell do you think you are?! You are not qualified in any shape or form to challenge anybody here. In case you've missed foundamentals: Until you have got evidences to prove the opposite, you are the one spreading misinformation. The way I see it, you are clearly victim of the Dunning-Kruger effect.

I challenge you to go and actually listen to it and first realise

Again, I don't need your challenge: I listened to R2R/NOS DACs before you had any clue about what a DAC is.

ASR on the whole has been quite dangerous to the industry.

Yep. For sure. And this is a very good thing as far as I'm thinking about it.

Think how many readers you could be turning away from such dacs by saying this.

Then I would be pretty happy about that.

As you go up the price ladder, you will notice that higher end consumers have not been infected by this philosophy because they care about what sounds good and not numbers on a page.

You could directly ask to Schiit, who are member here if they lose customers because of ASR.

At last, when you don't know, you don't know. You could either want to learn something there or try to debate with proper argumentation... But if the all purpose of your membership is to spread bullshit and trolling, maybe @BDWoody should show you the door?