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Towers VS bookshelves: Can people hear the differences?

Senior NEET Engineer

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A lot of passive bookshelf speakers have heavily rolled off bass despite what you might think reading a "-6 dB" spec. For example, LS50 roll off starts at 170hz even though the "-6 dB" is 47hz. It doesn't just affect the impact but also the sense of scale as well. If you are adamant about not integrating a subwoofer, then I think large speaker with 30hz extension is a must.
 
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A Surfer

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Well, it seems the community has found a way to take the thread and repurpose it. No offense OP, you meant well. We also have to realize that how people consume music is very different, and has been for quite sometime. Space is often limited for younger working adults, and they may move more frequently making big audio equipment out of step with their needs. As people have noted, this is likely cyclical, at least in terms of how younger people perceive their audio needs as being.

I ran an electronics recycling depot and I intercepted many great pieces of gear. One older woman was downsizing and she brought in a perfect pair of Celestion speakers and a mid-level, but completely competent Yamaha receiver. I asked if she was fine with me diverting them from the program to keep them in use (which is of course better than recycling as reusing should come first) and she was delighted that I would be able to reuse them. I personally had no need for them, but I decided to use them as a portable house party music system. This is where I will tie the story into the theme that has been getting developed here.

One of the staff members where I worked at that time was a younger woman, absolutely, devastatingly beautiful, body that would stop traffic, but to boot she didn't seem to know it and was very sweet. I was too old to even think about it seriously, but the staff there liked to party and she had just bought a new house and was having a little gathering. Me being me I asked if she had a stereo to play music on and she said no that she just used her laptop (in my experience many young adults did this then, about 2015). Of course inside I wept for the state of home audio in this exquisite creatures life and offered to bring over the Yamaha and Celestion speakers along with a little Schiit DAC I had on hand and use my laptop to provide music. She accepted of course, we actually got along well and I remember being a little unsure if she was attracted to me as we talked al the time, but I digress. This is where the story joins the conversation above.

At the party while all the young lovely people were arriving I was hooking up the stereo they were watching me with fascination. It was a cold snowy Ontario winter night and that is the best time for a house party! Anyway, they are watching me and I am not sure why when one nice young dude walks up and tells me how cool it was to see me hooking up speakers as he had never seen it done before! Seriously, he was in his late 20's early 30's and he had never seen this before? He didn't even know why I needed a DAC as he just used his phone, laptop or single Bluetooth speaker for listening to YouTube or Spotify. Hard to believe, by that age I had probably owned several systems and screwed around with plenty of gear.

Needless to say things got cooking when I had the tunes pumping through as the evening progressed with plenty of alcohol and lots of pot, I mean these are young Canadian adults, they like to drink and smoke when they are out having fun. A makeshift dance floor happened and I didn't mind when after a while people came and browsed YouTube for music. I knew some pretty solid contemporary stuff as I wasn't out of touch and I also played some pretty great party tunes, but it was awesome when they kept playing stuff that I didn't really know. Man was it fun bumping away on the dance floor with those young beautiful women, all facilitated by some good old 80's audio gear that was supposed to be downsized for newer lifestyle products. Not that I'm against lifestyle gear as it does fill a genuine need, it was just gratifying to see that no matter, audio gear that can pump out some nice sounding SPL will always have a place on a snowy Ontario night. I miss those days, damn pandemic.
 

restorer-john

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...a younger woman, absolutely, devastatingly beautiful, body that would stop traffic, but to boot she didn't seem to know it and was very sweet. I was too old to even think about it seriously...

Sure, I believe you. Not. ;)

But you redeem yourself somewhat:
...Of course inside I wept for the state of home audio in this exquisite creatures life and offered to bring over the Yamaha and Celestion speakers along with a little Schiit DAC I had on hand...

I'm sure she didn't resist, too much. ;)
 

A Surfer

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Sure, I believe you. Not. ;)

But you redeem yourself somewhat:


I'm sure she didn't resist, too much. ;)
LOL, I wish I could have posted a picture of her, which of course I couldn't/wouldn't. She is truly beautiful, and I mean in the sense of rare good looks. Tall, long beautiful hair, everything about her was flawless, even her voice was like music. We are still Facebook friends and I hate to admit it, but sometimes I just go through her pictures as she is just that amazing to look at. I also liked that she knew how to use very little makeup so she would be tastefully made up all the time. Pretty rare combination of beauty and approachability in my experience. If I had only been 10 years younger I tell you ....
 

digicidal

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Sorry to be so on topic with this post... but if you included well integrated subs with the bookshelves - I think it would change the conclusion significantly. Otherwise the previous responses covered it all (and obviously much that was completely tangential as well). ;)
 

A Surfer

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I hope you didn't like all of her photos :D

Ha ha, no, I never do anything like that under any circumstances. The Internet is like a digital trap and everything that you do or say can and will be used against you eventually. These audio communities are my only real presence on the Internet.
 

watchnerd

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LOL, I wish I could have posted a picture of her, which of course I couldn't/wouldn't. She is truly beautiful, and I mean in the sense of rare good looks. Tall, long beautiful hair, everything about her was flawless, even her voice was like music. We are still Facebook friends and I hate to admit it, but sometimes I just go through her pictures as she is just that amazing to look at. I also liked that she knew how to use very little makeup so she would be tastefully made up all the time. Pretty rare combination of beauty and approachability in my experience. If I had only been 10 years younger I tell you ....

Time for a cold shower, dude.
 

Sal1950

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A Surfer

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Time for a cold shower, dude.
No, it's not like that at all, I'm not a kid. I can admire and speak about beauty in any form, music, industrial design, food, drink, sports, anything. This beauty just happened to be a woman, and I also really noticed her qualities as a person and co-worker so I don't think I acted in anyway that was perving. Just saying.
 

Jinjuku

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Many bookshelf speakers have scored extremely well on preference scores, even better than towers in many cases. There are many reasons to buy bookshelf speakers and many reasons to buy towers. But if bookshelf speakers receive better preference scores, are cheaper, and people really can't tell the difference in blind tests, there may be fewer reasons to buy towers. (I actually prefer towers for looks, but if the above are true its hard for me to justify the purchase).

I was wondering if there are any data on tower vs. bookshelves in blind tests (whether it is the point of the study or not). Can people tell they are listening to towers in blind tests, for example?

I can tell you if the bookshelf speakers are on the floor....
 

wwenze

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Perhaps in the medium future we will get people to install in-wall speakers with DSP to maximize cabinet volume, maximize baffle length, and avoid back-wall cancellation. DSP necessary since the natural FR will be pretty weird but DSP can fix that easily.
 

jhaider

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This is a ridiculous thread. The answers have been given by @watchnerd and numerous times in the past. There's just no comparison between large floorstanders and book-shelf speakers for scale and bass response. Not even close. Blind or not blind. Even if you were deaf and blind, you'd still feel the difference!

It's threads like this that make me bemoan the loss of so many proper HiFi stores with a few walls of speakers. Go listen to a wall of bookshelf speakers and then move to the big boys. Rescale your expectations and stop focusing on preference scores- they are meaningless in the scheme of things. Find the nearest proper HiFi stores, get off your lazy backsides, drive there, and go listen to say 20 pairs of speakers.

Bookshelf speakers are just that. Speakers to put discretely in a room not designed for music. They are a supplement to say a library room or a conservatory. A study or a home office. I love bookshelf speakers for the fun factor- a whole lot of music in a shoebox. That's all.

But for goodness sake, they are not the same as real speakers. Real speakers actually move air, they don't just make farting noises out a reflex port.

Oh please. Never mind how many people have been swayed by “parlor trick” demos with a small speaker on a big speaker into thinking a much larger speaker was playing when. I’ve read @Floyd Toole comment on such a demo with JBL 705 and M2, for example.

Eyes are completely deaf, but they can really mess with one’s ear-brain connection.
 

restorer-john

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Oh please. Never mind how many people have been swayed by “parlor trick” demos with a small speaker on a big speaker into thinking a much larger speaker was playing when. I’ve read @Floyd Toole comment on such a demo with JBL 705 and M2, for example.

Bose were doing it in the 1970s, long before Floyd Toole and the JBL 705 and M2.

Technics had live drummers vs recordings and speakers at Audio shows in the late 1970s/early 1980s.

Nothing new to see here.

The discussion is not about sales gimmicks, it is about the audible differences between bookshelf speakers and large towers that anyone with a semblance of functional hearing can hear.
 

watchnerd

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The discussion is not about sales gimmicks, it is about the audible differences between bookshelf speakers and large towers that anyone with a semblance of functional hearing can hear.

When I was early in college, maybe 18-20 years old, I heard two big speakers that burned the distinction into me for life:

Infinity IRS V
Carver Amazing Loudspeaker

I played the 1812 Overture at idiotic levels and felt the air move. I still can't believe they let a broke teenager do that.

That being said, I like my new / totally square box / no curves Dynaudio Heritage Specials, which are very much designed to be mini monitors, and not stand mounts pretending to be big.
 

valerianf

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I have both of them, tower speakers for the front, bookshelf speakers for the surrounds.
If the tower speakers are well designed, there is no match.
Dynamic, details, SPL are superior.
As they need to be well optimum, i am tuning myself the towers.
I do not care about the bookshelf speakers : they just produce sound effects.
 
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