Beyerdynamic DT990 Pro Review (headphone)

[Helicopter]

Consistent. The FR was known, its the distortion I find a bit icky. That said, Im listening to my T1.2 now, with some EQ on and I still like them. Quite a lot. So either I am deaf, these arent half as bad as the 990 or the human ear can be quite forgiving. Or possibly a mix of all 3.

My thought too. FR is not that big a deal if you can correct it, but the distortion is a problem that will only get worse as you tweak them. The combination is worthy of the headless panther.

 

[Doodski]

Glad you're having a good time testing headphones @amirm. I am glad I never bought these beyerdynamics. I was about 2 mouse clicks away from buying either these or the Sennheiser HD598SR and I chose the Sennheiser because it has a non-coily cable and the extra cable with mic for the cel tel. I hate coiled cables.

 

[LTig]

All those Beyers are limited in max. excursions.
The very early (high impedance ones) even had zener diodes in anti-series to prevent maximum excursions.
Later on Beyer realized this was a bad idea when connecting it to a power amp.

The 600 Ohm version? I inherited the 250 Ohm version some 5 years ago and have no clue how old they are. Is there a way to find out whether they have those zeners, and how to get rid of them?

 

[ayane]

your headphone amp needs to also have a very low output impedance as to not impact the frequency response of this headphone

Just a nitpick, but higher load impedance means that the source impedance can also be higher in order to achieve a given damping factor. Lower output impedance is still always better though.

 

[amirm]

Just a nitpick, but higher load impedance means that the source impedance can also be higher in order to achieve a given damping factor. Lower output impedance is still always better though.

The issue is not its high impedance but the fact that it varies a lot. This then requires low output impedance in the amp as to not change the frequency response.

 

[LTig]

Consistent. The FR was known, its the distortion I find a bit icky. That said, Im listening to my T1.2 now, with some EQ on and I still like them. Quite a lot. So either I am deaf, these arent half as bad as the 990 or the human ear can be quite forgiving. Or possibly a mix of all 3.

I have to admit that the same is true for me when listening to my inherited DT990 pro 250 Ohm. I mostly use them with my smartphone, or at the PC when I'm too lazy to get the HD800 out of his box. On the PC though I've EQed the bass hump. The brightness probably compensates for hearing loss.

 

[Sonny1]

Another enlightening review from Amir! I’m not surprised but have to admit I’m disappointed. Thanks for your excellent work.

 

[JohnYang1997]

I feel 990pro is pretty ok with some exaggeration in the highs. The mids are accurate and tasteful. I would say these are way better than Diana.

 

[samwell7]

Yikes, I nearly purchased these, glad I didn't.
I guess at least it still has some mids, unlike the DT880.

 

[Objectivist01]

One down from the trio. Hd 650 proved itself already. Now its time for k702

 

[samwell7]

One down from the trio. Hd 650 proved itself already. Now its time for k702

I always thought the 'trinity' was K702, HD600 and DT880.

I tried all three years ago (see avatar pic) and kept the K702.

 

[JIW]

The issue is not its high impedance but the fact that it varies a lot. This then requires low output impedance in the amp as to not change the frequency response.

In another post of yours, you presented the below figure regarding audibility of changes in the frequency distribution of a signal. For the driver resonance at around 80 Hz, bandwidth is around 2 octaves at full-width half maximum power (~45-160 Hz). For the rise in the high frequencies, bandwidth is around 1.2 octaves assuming a bell-like shape (13-20 kHz and mirrored at 20 kHz out to 30 kHz). Following the popular rule that the output impedance should be at most one eight of the impedance of the headphones and assuming voltage division gives a 0.3 dB increase at the driver resonance and a 0.1 dB increase at 20 kHz. Both should be inaudible according to the below.

To get a potentially audible 1 dB frequency response change at the driver resonance at around 80 Hz requires an output impedance of 150 ohm assuming voltage division, while the maximum difference, i.e. for infinitely large output impedance, is given by the ratio of the maximum and minimum impedance - about 350/250 or 3 dB. Similarly, the rise in the high frequencies gives at most a 1 dB increase at 20 kHz.

 

[amirm]

To get a potentially audible 1 dB frequency response change at the driver resonance at around 80 Hz requires an output impedance of 150 ohm assuming voltage division, while the maximum difference, i.e. for infinitely large output impedance, is given by the ratio of the maximum and minimum impedance - about 350/250 or 3 dB. Similarly, the rise in the high frequencies gives at most a 1 dB increase at 20 kHz.

For low frequency resonances of wide Qs, we have much more accurate research than the one you quoted in the form of authoritative paper by Dr. Toole & Olive:

Toole, F.E., and Olive, S.E. (1988). “The Modifi cation of Timbre by Resonances: Perception
and Measurement,” J. Audio Eng. Soc., 36, pp. 122–142.

It is summarized in Dr. Toole's book:

Actual threshold for low Q is about 0.5 dB at low frequencies so much lower than what you are assuming above.

 

[Blake Klondike]

Had the DT880 for awhile and traded it again on Head-Fi. Thin, thin, thin.

At the next local meet, a guy was raving about his DT-990s, so I thought they had to have fixed what was wrong with the DT880s. LOL nope...they were twice as bad in all the same problem areas of the DT880 to my ears.

Interesting-- I have a pair of 880s that I like a lot. Can you comment on what you didn't like about them? Is it a matter of design failure or personal preference? I have to say, the fact that they sell them at guitar center does not instill confidence. I have these, and a pair of HD800s, and like them both but still don't have confidence that they are endgame phones, because I have no idea what would do the job better!

 

[raistlin65]

Be interesting to see how the TYGR 300 R compare. They are apparently tweaked DT990s to soften the treble peak. An the base hump is apparently leveled out a little bit

 

[dmac6419]

Interesting-- I have a pair of 880s that I like a lot. Can you comment on what you didn't like about them? Is it a matter of design failure or personal preference? I have to say, the fact that they sell them at guitar center does not instill confidence. I have these, and a pair of HD800s, and like them both but still don't have confidence that they are endgame phones, because I have no idea what would do the job better!

Whatever you like will get the job done,brought many a instruments and things from Guitar Center and other instrument stores and have nary complaints, I have the DT990 Pro,I'll be keeping mine.

 

[Tks]

I feel 990pro is pretty ok with some exaggeration in the highs. The mids are accurate and tasteful. I would say these are way better than Diana.

Okay maybe for my grapndpa that probably can't hear past 7K or something. Also praise against a Diana isn't really saying much considering that company is quite audiophool-y.

And that bass, is there a worse driver tested yet for that disgusting distortion profile?

I just don't get the what the positives are hear from an audio standpoint.

 

[Tatteredmidnight]

DT770’s were my first real headphones, these results don’t surprise me, but I will always have a soft spot for them.

 

[JIW]

For low frequency resonances of wide Qs, we have much more accurate research than the one you quoted in the form of authoritative paper by Dr. Toole & Olive:

Toole, F.E., and Olive, S.E. (1988). “The Modifi cation of Timbre by Resonances: Perception
and Measurement,” J. Audio Eng. Soc., 36, pp. 122–142.

It is summarized in Dr. Toole's book:

View attachment 109763

Actual threshold for low Q is about 0.5 dB at low frequencies so much lower than what you are assuming above.

Using the 0.5 dB threshold, since Q for the driver resonance is around 0.7 using full width half maximum power, output impedance would still have to be at least around 60 ohm - about a quarter of minimum impedance - for such a change to occur. As I already said in my previous post and which is not in conflict with the knowledge you provided in response, following the popular one-eighth rule, probably rules out any audible changes. Therefore, I fail to see any reason for you to add the claim that this headphone needs to be connected to an amplifier with very low output impedance.

 

[Deleted member 4360]

Anybody in the UK want to buy a DT1990 and/ or a T1? Daddy needs a pair of Dan Clark opens.

Which model? I had (for about 6 months) the A2C's but sold in favor of the A2C Noire - more treble (but not Beyer levels) and more bass than the red-cupped A2C's. Open stage for a closed too. Better than my Audeze closed and not so dark. Had T1 gen 2's recently and also Amiron Homes - didn't like them - way too v-shaped/recessed mids... DCA mids are great...