Sennheiser HD800S Review (Headphone)

[digititus]

Wow, a lot of filters in there. Is it auto generated or by a human?

It's a huge project. From the "About this project" found here

"AutoEQ is a project for equalizing headphone frequency responses automatically and it achieves this by parsing frequency response measurements and producing equalization settings which correct the headphone to a neutral sound. This project currently has over 2500 headphones covered in the results folder. See Usage for instructions how to use the results with different equalizer softwares and Results section for details about parameters and how the results were obtained.

AutoEQ is not just a collection of automatically produced headphone equalization settings but also a tool for equalizing headphones for yourself. autoeq.py provides methods for reading data, equalizing it to a given target response and saving the results for usage with equalizers. It's possible to use different compensation (target) curves, apply tilt for making the headphones brighter/darker and adding a bass boost. It's even possible to make one headphone sound (roughly) like another headphone. For more info about equalizing see Equalizing. If you're looking for something light weight to install as a dependency for your own project, you'll find autoeq-pkg much more suited for your needs.

Third major contribution of this project is the measurement data and compensation curves all in a numerical format except for Crinacle's raw data. Everything is stored as CSV files so they are easy to process with any programming language or even Microsoft Excel."

 

[Rock Rabbit]

If your ears are less capable of physically receiving higher frequencies as well as you did when younger, and you want to be able to hear them like that now, then you need to turn up the treble, right? You can't do that in real life without a hearing aid or whatever, but I'm sure many people would if they could. No-one's doubting that the older you are the more potential there is for having learnt stuff and being wise etc, but I'm not sure what that has to do with natural physical damage to ears due to ageing.

At present, presbycusis, being primarily sensorineural in nature, cannot be prevented, ameliorated or cured (Wikipedia)

 

[Robbo99999]

Sorry, going to have to pull you on this. My K701 are stock, bought new some years ago. 10? more? Ive just dug them out and they most definitely have angled pads. Same as K702? well no, but depending on who you read, very similar https://www.head-fi.org/threads/my-...s-and-the-rest-to-stop-this-confusion.752994/

I believe the 702 and 701 both use the same pads. EDIT- AKG sell different items / price - definitely different colour, cant discern shape or materials used. @solderdude do you know if AKG 701/702 pads are physically different?

EDIT 2 : I EQ my 4XX to Oratory Harman and, frankly, to these ears they dont get near the K701 for openness and staging- with some quick swapping at least. Be interested to hear your thoughts and comparisons with your 702's when you get them. Best description I can give of 4XX is "lumpier" or "deader" - for whatever that is worth.

I think you might be right, I must have read that another K7 or Q7 headphone didn't have angled pads. After checking at Thomann, I can see the K702 pads are advertised for K701 too....just the colour is different.....the K701 pads on Thomann (the correct colour) also look angled from the pics, yes so I think you're right & they're both angled pads, and probably identical apart from colour:
https://www.thomann.de/gb/akg_k_702_ear_pad.htm
https://www.thomann.de/gb/akg_k701_ohrpolster.htm

Yes, I'll report somewhere what I think to the HE4xx once they arrive, but that might be after Christmas. I do like my K702 with Harman EQ so much that I'd be a little surprised if I can find a better headphone, but it was the low distortion of the HE4xx, the higher soundstage rating from rtings, the promise of lower distortion, and the fact that it's got a frequency response that is easy to EQ that gives me hope it may be even better than my K702 - we'll see!

 

[wasnotwasnotwas]

I think you might be right, I must have read that another K7 or Q7 headphone didn't have angled pads. After checking at Thomann, I can see the K702 pads are advertised for K701 too....just the colour is different.....the K701 pads on Thomann (the correct colour) also look angled from the pics, yes so I think you're right & they're both angled pads, and probably identical apart from colour:
https://www.thomann.de/gb/akg_k_702_ear_pad.htm
https://www.thomann.de/gb/akg_k701_ohrpolster.htm

Yes, I'll report somewhere what I think to the HE4xx once they arrive, but that might be after Christmas. I do like my K702 with Harman EQ so much that I'd be a little surprised if I can find a better headphone, but it was the low distortion of the HE4xx, the higher soundstage rating from rtings, the promise of lower distortion, and the fact that it's got a frequency response that is easy to EQ that gives me hope it may be even better than my K702 - we'll see!

I read some of the K/Q had flat pads too. Think Q or the 712 maybe. Anyway, let's await the 4xx, no more trying to preempt your thoughts.

 

[Robbo99999]

I read some of the K/Q had flat pads too. Think Q or the 712 maybe. Anyway, let's await the 4xx, no more trying to preempt your thoughts.

Yes, I might even start a new thread for it, I'd probably outline experience with all my different headphones and provide some explanations for the one I finally rested on. Or if Amir measures the HE4xx before then, then I'll post it in there.

 

[PenguinMusic]

DeaDBeeF (Linux, Windows, Mac OS build available) with SuperEQ plugin has 18 bands.

Hi,

Yes, and it also has "Spectre" view which is nice.

BUT : it is super ugly :-( And super difficult to customize to get it to look like what you'd like it to look like :-(

My wildest dream (OK, I admit, I have others that that...) would be for Lollypop to be able to output sound with ALSA instead of PulseAudio

Regards.

 

[m8o]

I own the 800 (non S) and the 4xx, both eq to the same target. I'd pick the 800 to listen to every time.

The real question is how much of that preference is fit /feel, how much my sighted snobbery and how much is related to "sound"?

We await the answer to that question ... GO!

 

[wasnotwasnotwas]

We await the answer to that question ... GO!

We do indeed. Beyond my abilities. But some key extremes that others have suggested that I think need to be factored in. An iem with same FR as an open back, no way will it be the same "sound". Also a closed back with same FR as an open back. Doubt they "sound" the same. But what measurements explain the perceived differences? I don't know.

 

[threni]

My wildest dream (OK, I admit, I have others that that...) would be for Lollypop to be able to output sound with ALSA instead of PulseAudio

I wonder how many audio players there are for linux. I never came across that when I was looking. Perhaps we were looking for different features. I just wanted something which just played music, and could be controlled via Android, ending up with mpd. I'm not even sure how it's possible to no be able to target ALSA; surely there's some dummy null pulseaudio device which passes stuff straight down to ALSA?

something like this:
https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.ph...io_as_a_minimal_unintrusive_dumb_pipe_to_ALSA

 

[FrantzM]

We do indeed. Beyond my abilities. But some key extremes that others have suggested that I think need to be factored in. An iem with same FR as an open back, no way will it be the same "sound". Also a closed back with same FR as an open back. Doubt they "sound" the same. But what measurements explain the perceived differences? I don't know.

All true and we though that measuring speakers was difficult !

 

[wasnotwasnotwas]

All true and we though that measuring speakers was difficult !

Well, regardless of anything else, you can blindfold speaker listeners to at least remove the sighted bias. The hardest parti suspect is separating the "fit and feel" aspects from the sonic experience. Dug my k701 out today, EQ them, sound great but can't have on my head more than 15 minutes without feeling the "hard" pads. Changes my feelings about them totally. Back in the cupboard.

 

[m8o]

It's a huge project. From the "About this project" found here

"AutoEQ is a project for equalizing headphone frequency responses automatically and it achieves this by parsing frequency response measurements and producing equalization settings which correct the headphone to a neutral sound. This project currently has over 2500 headphones covered in the results folder. See Usage for instructions how to use the results with different equalizer softwares and Results section for details about parameters and how the results were obtained.

...

Thank you for posting an excellent example of my biggest problem with everything centered around matching the Harman (sic) target curve. I took a sampling of several dozen measurement plots published there. What seems to be the one that most closely matches that target curve? The Samsung Galaxy Buds. Enough of this insanity!

 

[PuX]

why exactly would you avoid EQ?

the whole point of hi-fi is keeping the sound as close as possible to the original, or reproducing it as accurately as possible.

so keep the components single-purpose and the number of components in the chain as low as possible (dac-amp-speakers/headphones currently, integral amps vs pre+power has always been debatable), avoid any tone controls etc.
and rely on each component adding as little as possible of any kind of character to the sound. manufacturers are the ones who have to tune the sound and it should be a single setting, consumer does not get to change it.

as soon as there is knob besides volume for consumer to turn (tone, bass, treble, eq - doesn't matter) all of that goes out of the window.

you will make subjective changes and the sound will have less in common with the original than with your tastes.

what Amir does is of course a bit different, relying on measurements to EQ makes some sense, but I would rather get different headphones anyway.

 

[PuX]

I always replace any TV I buy that doesn't have the right color balance out of the box. I mean, why would I bother adjusting it? I'd rather keep shopping until I find one that matches my exact preferences..

it never made any sense to me, they should calibrate them to neutral colours and 6500k and you only get to change the brightness.

luckily they are adding filmmaker modes in recent years, because only that is the way you are going to get what director intended to be seen.

 

[bluefuzz]

Dug my k701 out today, EQ them, sound great but can't have on my head more than 15 minutes without feeling the "hard" pads.

Interesting. Out of the headphones I have, Senn HD58X, AKG K701, Beyer DT990E and Philips X2HR I find the K701s the most comfortable for daily use. Also, after calibration, they have a slight edge on the others - possibly just because they're the most comfortable ...

 

[digititus]

Thank you for posting an excellent example of my biggest problem with everything centered around matching the Harman (sic) target curve. I took a sampling of several dozen measurement plots published there. What seems to be the one that most closely matches that target curve? The Samsung Galaxy Buds. Enough of this insanity!

Glad I was able to confirm your bias! I also am not a big fan of Harman curve. However, the data provided does give a good idea of which area of frequency response could be best attenuated with EQ for each headphone. After a while, you can develop your own 'curve' taste for your headphones.

 

[PuX]

AKG K701 is not AKG K702. The K702 has angled pads, the K701 does not.

where is this information coming from?

I believe the only difference is the color + cable is detachable on K702. Drivers and pads should be identical.

There are revisions though and they moved the production to China, I think they changed the material of the headband and supposedly the embossing on the top of the headband, maybe something else but it should be minor.

K712 is different though, pads with memory foam and drive tuning. Q701 is different also but don't know the details.

 

[infinitesymphony]

So after reading 23 pages, is the science gone from ASR here? Are we back to subjective score boards and spaciousness, clarity, thing? :/
Measurements alone do not tell the whole story? Although curves look alike, the he4xx must be worse than HD800?
Please say no

I don't think so. As we gradually discovered with speaker testing, frequency response curves don't tell the whole story, although they are relied upon as the primary measurement in the Olive preference score. One of the missing variables was distortion, which also influences a speaker's max SPL.

Perhaps with headphones we are missing a variable that accounts for the "room" that the headphone enclosure and drivers create, where with speakers we look at directivity and reflection characteristics.

 

[pma]

the whole point of hi-fi is keeping the sound as close as possible to the original, or reproducing it as accurately as possible.

so keep the components single-purpose and the number of components in the chain as low as possible (dac-amp-speakers/headphones currently, integral amps vs pre+power has always been debatable), avoid any tone controls etc.
and rely on each component adding as little as possible of any kind of character to the sound. manufacturers are the ones who have to tune the sound and it should be a single setting, consumer does not get to change it.

as soon as there is knob besides volume for consumer to turn (tone, bass, treble, eq - doesn't matter) all of that goes out of the window.

you will make subjective changes and the sound will have less in common with the original than with your tastes.

what Amir does is of course a bit different, relying on measurements to EQ makes some sense, but I would rather get different headphones anyway.

Your assumption is completely incorrect. If electro-acoustic transducer has deficiencies in its transfer function, then it destroys proper transfer before the transducer. EQ is to correct transducer’s errors.

 

[Rock Rabbit]

Your assumption is completely incorrect. If electro-acoustic transducer has deficiencies in its transfer function, then it destroys proper transfer before the transducer. EQ is to correct transducer’s errors.

And how do you know that your "EQ" fix the transducer effect or better how you suppose EQ could simulate original console/monitoring room/monitors? and EQ used by recording engineer.
Or maybe EQ gives a complete wrong picture (?) worst than no EQ at all?