Sennheiser HD800S Review (Headphone)

[maverickronin]

There's also E1DA'S PowerDAC v2, but that only has max 7 bands of parametric EQ to the others' 10 bands, plus it needs an external power source. The Qudelix 5K is the best option of them all in my opinion - tiny and lightweight yet powerful, with a fantastic app to control everything from, and optional Bluetooth (including LDAC) connectivity as a bonus to turn any headphone into a 'wireless' (to source) pair.

I have an ADI-2 DAC on my desk.

I'll probably end up with the MiniDSP HA-DSP eventually though. The analog specs aren't all that great for the price, but it's one of the few devices with crossfeed ans IMO that's even more important than PEQ.

 

[bobbooo]

I have an ADI-2 DAC on my desk.

I'll probably end up with the MiniDSP HA-DSP eventually though. The analog specs aren't all that great for the price, but it's one of the few devices with crossfeed ans IMO that's even more important than PEQ.

Triple the price of the Qudelix, with half the max power, and less portability, just for crossfeed? Not worth it for me, especially as I can use the excellent Neutron Player app's crossfeed for offline files on mobile, and free options on PC such as Equalizer APO with Peace GUI.

 

[digititus]

Just in case this hasn't been posted. AutoEQ settings for Sennheiser HD 800S

 

[Robbo99999]

I haven't read other people's comments yet, so apologies if some of this has been mentioned before.

I'm surprised by the quite high level of distortion in the bass of the 800s, it's pretty much the same as the HD 650 according to the graphs, and I'm also surprised by the amount shown in the HD650 too, seems higher than other places where I've looked at distortion percentages. Given this high distortion in the bass I was quite surprised that this gave clean bass in the listening tests, especially with the EQ that boosts the bass by up to a massive +12dB at the far low end - I can't see how a massive bass boost like this wouldn't increase the distortion to even greater levels....so I find it surprising that this massive bass boost provided clean sounding bass.

Another thing I'm surprised about is the comments on listening levels, since when was 94dB "below normal listening level", and since when was 104dB "slightly louder than normal listening levels" - I find 94dB when measured on my speakers almost deafening, so I really don't understand the characterisation of those comments, is there some kind of a difference here when it comes to headphones.....I think I'm missing something?

@amirm , you said you like 800s as "It manages to provide a spooky layering and I guess I should say clarity that is not only surprisingly but delightful" - I think that's a very similar effect to the AKG K702 (especially when EQ'd to Harman), (the soundstage effect) so might be worth measuring & trying one of those too, it's significantly cheaper than the 800s so I think that would be a real find for people.


One other observation, the HD650 measurement is really quite similar to Oratory's, so I think there's some good approval between the two there.

 

[pozz]

Regarding the distortion vs. frequency plot. Can you post a similar one with no signal playing to show environmental noise?

 

[maverickronin]

Triple the price of the Qudelix, with half the max power, and less portability, just for crossfeed?

For me? Totally. I can hardly listen to anything without crossfeed.

Not worth it for me, especially as I can use the excellent Neutron Player's crossfeed for offline files, and free options on PC such as Equalizer APO with Peace GUI.

Won't get me crossfeed out of my Switch or 3DS though.

 

[RayDunzl]

Another thing I'm surprised about is the comments on listening levels, since when was 94dB "below normal listening level", and since when was 104dB "slightly louder than normal listening levels" - I find 94dB when measured on my speakers almost deafening, so I really don't understand the characterisation of those comments, is there some kind of a difference here when it comes to headphones.....I think I'm missing something?

From my in-room experience:

If you "calibrate" to a 74dB SPL average listening level, peaks will hit 94db. It won't be very loud.

As with 84dB SPL average, and peaks of 104dB. That will be pleasingly loud, and is about the level I listen attentively/critically.

So, I'll go with the idea he is measuring for peak, rather than average level for distortion.

But agree both of those levels @amirm measures are way too loud for sustained exposure.


Example with average of 64dB. Moderate TV level (no commercial)

Peak level is about 20dB higher.

---

I tend to listen to headphones more softly than I listen to speakers, but the relative values should be similar.

 

[pozz]

MiniDSP HA-DSP

Would love to see this tested.

Never knew they had a product like it. Expensive, though.

https://www.minidsp.com/products/dsp-headphone-amp/ha-dsp

 

[preload]

Don’t bother. The HD800 will fry your ears off with treble. HD600 and HD650 are the best sounding Senn’s—well, except for the HD1 which at $60,000 I have not heard, nor have many other people, I imagine. HD700 was good but for some reason it has been discontinued. There is a new HD660 which could be good. But the HD800 series? No thank you.

I bought the original HD800 when it was initially released. I also couldn't stand the treble, and promptly returned them, disappointed. Fast forward a few years later, supposedly, the HD800S solved some of the peaking, so I picked up a pair. They still sounded bright to me, BUT, when I added a -8dB/Q3.0 filter at 6kHz and lots of bass boost, it actually is perhaps the best HP I've heard (and this list includes the SR-009, Focal Utopia, HE1000, etc.). The only issue I have is with bass impact, even with +12dB compensation. The original HD800 supposedly has slightly lower bass-range THD where it matters, so I purchased a pair of original HD800's and applied the Super Dupont Resonator (SDR) mod, which tames some of the FR peaks, and on top of that, applied the 6khz filter and bass boost. These are incredible HP's with a little EQ.

BTW, I've tried the other widely available EQ curves, including the sonarworks tru-fi, and mine's better.

I also have a pair of HD650's that I listened to for many years, and there's just absolutely no comparison with an EQ's HD800. That's my $0.02.

 

[peniku8]

could you share how you equalize your hd650? @amirm

of course a review is even better.

We've bought the HD650 a while ago for the studio and I've spent an hours or two listening to them and dialing in an EQ.
My reference are Genelec 8040BPMs (plus a Genelec sub and room EQ of course).
After I did that, I compared it to measurements and it was pretty much exactly what I was seeing there. I optimized the EQ a bit until I was satisfied with the results. The first thing I noticed when I put them on was the "muddyness", which was probably a mix from having too much lower mids and less bass than expected. Second thing was the fatigue that built up, which was corrected with a bit of EQ work above 5khz.

Here is my config file I use in EQapo (i use EQE on my jailbroken iPhone):
Filter 1: ON PK Fc 20,0 Hz Gain 6,5 dB Q 0,700
Filter 2: ON PK Fc 150 Hz Gain -2,5 dB Q 0,500
Filter 3: ON PK Fc 1200 Hz Gain -1,5 dB Q 3,000
Filter 4: OFF PK Fc 2200 Hz Gain 3,0 dB Q 2,000 (was like that in the measurements, but it didn't sound natural to me, so I leave it off)
Filter 5: ON PK Fc 5100 Hz Gain -2,0 dB Q 3,000
Filter 6: ON PK Fc 9000 Hz Gain -1,0 dB Q 3,000
Filter 7: ON PK Fc 16000 Hz Gain -1,0 dB Q 2,000

This PEQ will make the headphones flat, which means you'll have to add your prefered bass boost manually.
The EQ is probably not perfect, but it sounded close enough to me, so I never bothered, because the HD650s are just one of the many tools we use for music reproduction. In fact, I don't use them at all. I'd probably leave out the two EQs on the top end, since that region is so problematic to measure (and I can't remember if they're needed or not, regardless, the changes are rather small anyways).
Keep in mind that bass will be percieved louder when there is tactile feedback, which means that you might prefer a bigger bass boost on the headphones compared to a speaker set up (when the speakers are driven loud enough for that to actually matter).
The change at 150Hz is less than what it looks like, because of the wide Q of the 20Hz filter. It's more like a 1,5db reduction from 0 when both filters are active.

 

[Robbo99999]

94dB SPL at 1kHz is VERY loud (94 Phon) and is something that you would normally not listen to for about half a song.
94dB SPL at 40Hz is about 80 Phon and what is aimed for during recordings (pleasantly loud)
When one has a bass note and wants to EQ to Harman and listen at a pleasantly loud listening level 85dB bass will be about 18dB higher in amplitude so around 104dB.
measuring 1kHz at 94 dB SPL means bass would have to be 112dB SPL. The total SPL would be much higher as the energy of all tones adds.

The thing is, Amir said he's measuring SPL at 425Hz, which is basically the same dB level as 1kHz when referencing the Headphone Harman Curve, and most of the frequency response is higher than this point (in dB), so given all that it seems that Amir's comments about 94dB being below normal listening level are a little crazy, I don't get that currently.

From my in-room experience:

If you "calibrate" to a 74dB SPL average listening level, peaks will hit 94db. It won't be very loud.

As with 84dB SPL average, and peaks of 104dB. That will be pleasingly loud, and is about the level I listen attentively/critically.

So, I'll go with the idea he is measuring for peak, rather than average level for distortion.

But agree both of those levels @amirm measures are way too loud for sustained exposure.


Example with average of 64dB. Moderate TV level (no commercial)


View attachment 99491

Peak level is about 20dB higher.

---

I tend to listen to headphones more softly than I listen to speakers, but the relative values should be similar.

I think Amir is just talking about a 0dBFS test tone at 425Hz in terms of his comments on dB level (it's annotated in the following graph):

EDIT: ah, I see your point now RayDunzl, you're saying that would be the peak, which it would, and music is not always at 0dBFS......although a lot of modern music is consistently bouncing off 0dBFS if you analyze a few tracks in a program like Orban Loudness Meter....so I think the idea that 94dB (peak) is below normal listening levels, I find that a little strange & unbelievable still.

 

[Rock Rabbit]

Regarding the distortion vs. frequency plot. Can you post a similar one with no signal playing to show environmental noise?

800S at 94 dB SPL...meaning some 61 dB SPL average at one foot on the external side (rtings review)...the environmental noise are the 800S!

 

[preload]

I don't at all like the idea, in loudspeakers but especially in headphones, of recommendations based on listening through EQ.

For loudspeakers I can see some semblance of justification. Loudspeakers don't move, and even if most "audiophile" gear is obsolete dross (no or primitive bass management; no room correction) at least speakers are fixed in place and DSP (built into modern equipment, or as an external component) is readily available.

Interesting. I have the opposite perspective. Headphones don't move. Loudspeakers are affected by placement in the room, standing waves, reflections, and not to mention changes in the MLP. It would make intuitive sense then that headphones would be most amenable to an optimal set of EQ settings, given the lack of other variables. Whereas, with loudspeakers, one set of EQ settings might be great for a particular listening room and MLP, but not for someone else's.

For headphones there is, however, no reasonable justification. I don't think headphones should get a free pass on the necessary condition of pleasing tonal balance, unless the tools to improve it are included in the package.

So, loudspeakers should come with an optimal room to hear them in?

The primary reason is the headphone amp market is in a state of complete and total failure. Almost universally, the products offered are sonically inferior to a 20 year-old HeadRoom device, There is more SINAD or whatever (BFD after a fairly low level of attainment) but no actually useful innovation in the form of modern processing (PEQ, crossfeed or more advanced room simulation) or the required UI.

In what way are current HPA products sonically inferior to a 20 year-old headroom device? Frequency Response? SNR? THD/IMD?

Furthermore, software EQ is simply not an acceptable ersatz. I guess there are a few people who prefer to listen to headphones at home.

You guessed correctly. In fact, for high-end cans, listening at home is pretty much the use case for them. Or perhaps you like walking down the street wearing Abyss cans.

But the bulk of users will use them on the go,

For the bulk of users listening "on the go," check out the Beats product line.

There is no opportunity to EQ them in such cases, due to the aforementioned market failure in headphone amps.

The term "market failure" implies that a product did not sell/profit successfully. Given the massive availability and enthusiasm for headphone amps that don't have a built-in EQ, I think the "market" would disagree with your assertion.

 

[hutt132]

I had the HD800S and HD600. The HD800S were very comfy, sounded more open, and were clear, but they were just too treble hot and fatiguing. I tried all sorts of EQ: taking out the treble peaks, trying different variants of the Harman curve, all that bs.
None seemed to make it sound any better tonality wise than the HD600, so I returned it.

I think they are more geared towards people in their 40s+ where their hearing starts to go and they're not bothered by the treble.

 

[preload]

I don't give a damn what people "choose to buy." Buying shit is completely out of the scope of my point. My point is that a recommendation should be based on the performance of the actual product, optimized using its included capabilities, not some doctored version of it.

You seem angry. If someone handed you a pair of headphones and said these sound about average, but if you apply a simple two-band EQ filter, they will sound better than anything you've ever heard, I have a feeling you'd say "No way man [expletive] [expletive] I will only listen to them undoctored and the EQ was not included!"

 

[Zensō]

Focal clear is here as well.

Looking forward to this. And thanks for the HD800S review. Great stuff!

 

[LTig]

No EQ. The most accurate sound from headphones. However, they needed very good headphone preamp, with close to zero output impedance and high current capability.

I agree with your sound description. Not though with the amp requirements. @solderdude's review showed that output impedance is not important at all, and I can state that even on my smartphone (Samsung S5 neo, 700 mV rms) the HD800 sounds better than any other headphone I've tested.

 

[suttondesign]

I have, in the past, posted the question why, given the technical capability of companies like Sennheiser, and staggering sums charged for high-end headphones now, we don't have a headphone which measures well out of the box. I still don't get it. Wouldn't this involve some minimal in-line thing?

 

[garbulky]

@amirm I am so very very glad that you posted the review of the 800S. This has been my upgrade headphone for a long time until recently. So here's my conundrum. I have the HD700 and yes it also has a bit of the "soundstage" that the 800 is supposed to have though likely at a much lower level. You are right to use your subjective perception of the "layering" to grade this higher than the measurements show it should be. I LOVE the soundstage. However, a recent listening to some in ear earphones made me realize that the HD700 does audibly lack in the lowest frequencies - say below 50 or 60 hz.

When I realized what I was missing, I got sad because I was worried that the 800S would have the same issues.
I use my headphones through an Emotiva bas-x A-100 which is connected to a dac. The problem is that it is connected to a variety of sources not just a pc. Like a straeming device, pc, game console, blu ray player and they all get substantial use. So eq is not an easily viable option nor one I care to make.
My question is - how is the bass without eq? Do you find it goes substantially lower or sounds better than the HD650's?

 

[jazzendapus]

US $1,323 is really a funny price for this. Considering this is an open back headphone you will be listening to/with alone in a room, why not just buy a pair of Neumanns KH 80 (about $1,200) instead which are objectively close to perfect (when it comes to accepted science) and only need a deecent sub to nail it down for good. Why go for a headphone with poor out-of-the box FR and with some kind of cute simulation of openness/soundstage/separation/whatever when you can get the real thing for not much more cash?