Upgrade Path: Active Speakers with EQ, or Bargain Passive?

[Tomino]

Hello -- First post here, after reading from the shadows for some months.

I've enjoyed the same, mid-fi audio equipment for a long time, taking mostly a set-it-and-forget-it approach, years at a time. Now I'm thinking I can realize some very enjoyable improvements for a few thousand dollars, and am wondering how to go.

Here's what I'm currently playing: Joseph Audio RM20 speakers (circa 1995) driven by a B&K ST-202 two-channel amp. I play CDs, and recently upgraded my old MSB Link DAC with an SMSL Sanskrit Mk II (with thanks to amirm's review).

I'm fortunate to have a dedicated listening room (19.5' x 14.5' x 8'2" high, carpeted and wood-paneled). I've further improved the sound (thanks again to this site) by getting a cheap measurement mic, running Room EQ Wizard, and moving stuff around. I don't have Roon or any other electronic means of EQ.

I listen to 98% classical in this space. 9 or so feet from the speakers. Rarely more than 85 dB according to my phone.

I'm contemplating two paths to see if I can enjoy this arrangement even more:

Path 1: The incremental, passive speaker gambit

Path 1 starts by upgrading my amp to something like a 2 channel NC502MP, which I can do new for $700. That will give me more and cleaner power. I've never seen a frequency response graph of my Joseph Audio speakers, but I have seen reference to the B&K amps being too bright. I think there is a decent chance that the amp upgrade by itself will noticeably improve my sound and temper the treble. I see about a 60% chance that I will see this as a true step up.

With an improved amp, if I want to upgrade further, I would be free to try other passive speakers. I see fancy used speakers in the Nashville market where I live on a regular basis, so I could wait for something appealing at a discount. I foresee a budget of $1k to $2k. I could also buy something new of course, though the wealth of options is head-spinning. I'm charmed by the Philharmonic web site, and impressed by the reviews I've seen, so maybe a pair of ugly Philharmonic 3's ($3k) if I'm feeling flush and it's a major anniversary.

My hope with this path is that I would not feel the need to later add EQ. If I had to, I could rip all my disks to a dedicated PC and get Roon and a Raspberry Pi, but that sounds like a major hassle.

Path 2: Active speakers, (A) with or (B) without digital EQ

Path 2-A involves getting active monitors. Preferably something big enough to have some bass and punch at midfield distance. Genelec 8030c's ($700 ea.) or something similar, perhaps. I could later add a subwoofer (Genelec 7040 is $800) if desired. I hear such good things about active speakers, and I want to upgrade my amp anyway, so there is some logic to that. Pro audio monitors would also give me some basic EQ controls.

Path 2-B is similar, but contemplates springing for more full-blown EQ controls on active monitors, like the Genelec SAM system (8330a is $900 ea), or the Neumann EQ system run through their subwoofer. I might only ever run the program once -- I'm not setting up mixing rooms all over town -- but I gather it might make a material difference. This would add significantly to the cost ($400 in the referenced Genelecs), so might mean going with smaller speakers (the 8320a's are $625 ea.) and rushing to get a subwoofer sooner.

I think there is a better chance that paths 2-A or B will sound good to me -- maybe 80%-90%. But it costs more and isn't incremental. Moving incrementally has both financial and marital advantages.

Thoughts welcome!

 

[witchdoctor]

If you want budget you can get the Paradigm PW Amp that has a sub out and ARC room correction. You can run all your music with the included DTS Play-Fi app. Those amps are on sale for 50% off currently on Paradigm website. For a speaker the Boston Acoustics A series and one of their subs. Amrim just recommended their book shelf but the floorstanders are good and on sale at accessories4less.com.

If you want active Genelec,, Neuman, JBL and Yamaha would come to mind.

 

[Tomino]

Thanks! I'll check them out.

 

[Beershaun]

I think your next step for best bang for the buck is room correction and EQ. I'd first do just that and then decide if you want to spend more. Dirac is the amir recommendation.

 

[Tomino]

If you want budget you can get the Paradigm PW Amp that has a sub out and ARC room correction. You can run all your music with the included DTS Play-Fi app. Those amps are on sale for 50% off currently on Paradigm website. For a speaker the Boston Acoustics A series and one of their subs. Amrim just recommended their book shelf but the floorstanders are good and on sale at accessories4less.com.

If you want active Genelec,, Neuman, JBL and Yamaha would come to mind.

Thanks for the response! I'll check them out.

 

[Tomino]

I think your next step for best bang for the buck is room correction and EQ. I'd first do just that and then decide if you want to spend more. Dirac is the amir recommendation.

Thanks. And how would that work? What hardware runs Dirac?

 

[Beershaun]

You need a PC or a receiver or pre/amp that supports it in the digital domain.
The most common non-pc example is the minidsp.

 

[witchdoctor]

Thanks. And how would that work? What hardware runs Dirac?

Lot's, you can spend $$$ or $, up to you. I own the PW Amp and ARC works really well. Amrim reviewed it and recommended it too. The price is WAY down since his review .

With Dirac you would have to spend a little more and their are many vendors, you can check diracs website for a list.

 

[Tomino]

You need a PC or a receiver or pre/amp that supports it in the digital domain.
The most common non-pc example is the minidsp.

Got it. Yes, I looked into the minidsp somewhat. It looked like it had some doubtful specs, like a bad S/N ratio. It sounded like EQ would come at a price of some degradation to the signal.

 

[Tomino]

Lot's, you can spend $$$ or $, up to you. I own the PW Amp and ARC works really well. Amrim reviewed it and recommended it too. The price is WAY down since his review .

With Dirac you would have to spend a little more and their are many vendors, you can check diracs website for a list.

Hmm -- unless I'm missing something, I'm not seeing Amirm's recommendation
https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...iew-and-measurements-of-paradigm-pw-amp.7728/

He concludes:
"It is with a heavy heart that I say I can NOT recommend the Paradigm PW Amp."

Did he later revise it or something? Thanks for your thoughts in any event.

 

[Beershaun]

Got it. Yes, I looked into the minidsp somewhat. It looked like it had some doubtful specs, like a bad S/N ratio. It sounded like EQ would come at a price of some degradation to the signal.

Take a look at the NAD M33. I'd consider that the bang for buck benchmark of the best end to end SINAD in one user friendly box.

 

[witchdoctor]

Hmm -- unless I'm missing something, I'm not seeing Amirm's recommendation
https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...iew-and-measurements-of-paradigm-pw-amp.7728/

He concludes:
"It is with a heavy heart that I say I can NOT recommend the Paradigm PW Amp."

Did he later revise it or something? Thanks for your thoughts in any event.

I thought he liked it. My bad then, I guess he just liked ARC. My experience is in my desktop 2.1 system is that the amp just wraps you in a bubble of sound when ARC is engaged. It was originally $500 and you can score one now for $250. It has analog in, a sub out, and will run wirelessly on your network via DTS-Playfi. You install the app on your phone and BOOM, off to the races.

 

[Tomino]

Take a look at the NAD M33. I'd consider that the bang for buck benchmark of the best end to end SINAD in one user friendly box.

I agree that would address both power and EQ pretty well. At $5k though, I'm not sure I've been that good this year. Or ever.

 

[Cahudson42]

For a bit of a contrarian view on the electronics, why not consider:
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07RR6WQBW/ Denon AVR X3600H. $900.

Gives Audessey 32 room correction. Sub and powered center if you add them. Upgrade path for HT. Probably a sufficient PSU for the 2 or 3 channels, L, R, maybe C - that you will start at..

https://audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/denon-avr-x3600h-av-receiver-review.12676/ (Be sure to read the posts)

 

[GDK]

Got it. Yes, I looked into the minidsp somewhat. It looked like it had some doubtful specs, like a bad S/N ratio. It sounded like EQ would come at a price of some degradation to the signal.

Since you already have REW and a mic, why not sign up for the Roon two week free trial, input your REW filters and see how you feel. I would be shocked if that didn’t deliver greater improvement to SQ than a new amp would. At the least, it will give you a gauge as to what to expect from room correction at no incremental cost. If you like it, you can extend your Roon subscription or look to other hardware or software options.

 

[Tomino]

For a bit of a contrarian view on the electronics, why not consider:
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07RR6WQBW/ Denon AVR X3600H. $900.

Gives Audessey 32 room correction. Sub and powered center if you add them. Upgrade path for HT. Probably a sufficient PSU for the 2 or 3 channels, L, R, maybe C - that you will start at..

https://audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/denon-avr-x3600h-av-receiver-review.12676/ (Be sure to read the posts)

Interesting thought. You'd think someone would have thought to put something similar in a solid two-channel amp without a 300% premium. In time, I imagine they will come.

 

[Beershaun]

The Minidsp SHD performed better in Amirs review than the regular minidsp 2x4 and may be the sweet spot.

 

[Tomino]

Since you already have REW and a mic, why not sign up for the Roon two week free trial, input your REW filters and see how you feel. I would be shocked if that didn’t deliver greater improvement to SQ than a new amp would. At the least, it will give you a gauge as to what to expect from room correction at no incremental cost. If you like it, you can extend your Roon subscription or look to other hardware or software options.

I really like that idea.

 

[q3cpma]

Everything depends on if you're ready to do room correction yourself or want something automatised to do it for you. Even in the first case, small analogue active monitors backed by a sub crossing at 90~100 Hz are a very viable option; or bigger ones, just don't buy their overpriced subwoofer "solutions".
But to be honest, if I were you, I'd consider 3-way active monitors, as you'd really benefit from them in your case (3 m listening distance and possibly complex orchestral music with huge peaks). Something like the KH310A (especially now that Neumann announced its room correction module) or some Ones if you're ready to spend a bit (your budget seem to be something like $4k, reading your passive option detail).

 

[Tomino]

Since you already have REW and a mic, why not sign up for the Roon two week free trial, input your REW filters and see how you feel. I would be shocked if that didn’t deliver greater improvement to SQ than a new amp would. At the least, it will give you a gauge as to what to expect from room correction at no incremental cost. If you like it, you can extend your Roon subscription or look to other hardware or software options.[/QUOTE

Everything depends on if you're ready to do room correction yourself or want something automatised to do it for you. Even in the first case, small analogue active monitors backed by a sub crossing at 90~100 Hz are a very viable option; or bigger ones, just don't buy their overpriced subwoofer "solutions".
But to be honest, if I were you, I'd consider 3-way active monitors, as you'd really benefit from them in your case (3 m listening distance and possibly complex orchestral music with huge peaks). Something like the KH310A (especially now that Neumann announced its room correction module) or some Ones if you're ready to spend a bit (your budget seem to be something like $4k, reading your passive option detail).

Thank you! I'm willing to work on it myself, though there are some limits to my abilities/time/patience.

I may rethink the listening distance from my speakers. It's been both a humbling and encouraging Sunday in my EQ efforts. While looking into how to get Roon going, I decided to try the 38%-from-the-front-wall listening position, which apparently is a thing. This seems weirdly close to the front wall, but when I measured it, the response was flatter.

I hope to delve into Roon over the holidays, but I'm starting to wonder whether the next step for me may be some additional room treatment for reflections, whether it's absorbers or diffusers. EQ won't fix comb filters, as I understand it.