When I worked for Garrard

[paddycrow]

How do you keep something like that dust free?

 

[Frank Dernie]

How does one do alignment with a tonearm like that?

It looks like the tonearm on my Fisher Price record player as a child.

You couldn't.
These were a consumer item with ceramic cartridge.
For 99.99% of music lovers it was just part of their radiogram and any adjustment would have been a worry or annoyance.
LPs were decades from being a niche enthusiast obsession then.

 

[Frank Dernie]

'Why' is to mass load the platter.

No, that is the excuse for the styling feature there are more effective ways to mass load that don't look as nice.
I liked the Transcriptors Hydraulic Reference (its Grandfather) more, but by the Gyrodec the idea of supporting the disc on a few rubber dots was out of fashion so the styling had to change and the weights go underneath.
I love the look myself but not the fast motor and particularly not the round section belt.
Wow is noticeable on every one I have listened to, including your earlier youtube link.

 

[restorer-john]

How does one do alignment with a tonearm like that?

It looks like the tonearm on my Fisher Price record player as a child.

Come on, you are being utterly ridiculous.

I had a battery operated battle tank in 1972, which had a tiny record player in it and a 'cone' attached to the stylus/arm, as did my sister with dolls that would 'say' things when you squeezed their hands. We didn't over analyze their fidelity- they were toys.

At the same time, my father had an ERA turntable, then another, and finally an Empire 398a, which he still has (among maybe 30 or 40 others).

But the one I will take to my grave or pass on, is the Empire.

 

[Frank Dernie]

How do you keep something like that dust free?

It is a problem with a lot of turntables.
My main TT was never available with a dust cover so I got one made but it is still a pain to keep dust free.

 

[paddycrow]

It is a problem with a lot of turntables.
My main TT was never available with a dust cover so I got one made but it is still a pain to keep dust free.

If you look at my avatar, you'll see that I had the same problem with my Marantz. I went with a dust cover that goes over the whole thing. Dust still gets in there, though.

I can't imagine having to dust a turntable with all those surfaces.

 

[anmpr1]

What I really like is the look of the Garrard GT-55.

The GT55 was the last of the pantograph Garrards. I never heard one, but would have liked to. The arm was lower mass than the original, and (I believe) formed from a magnesium alloy. Electronic belt drive. It was no doubt better than what it replaced, however when anyone compared it to Japanese players at the same price point few could get interested. Really, it was the solution to a problem no one was very interested in.

The original Z100 showed traditional Garrard cosmetics: white metal plinth; brass accents; solid walnut base. Later Z100s suffered from cost cutting, substituting aluminum for brass, and cheaper looking (oak?) base. By the time of the GT series, Garrard was no longer a serious player in mass market consumer space. In fact, when Stereo Review broke down the GT55, Julian Hirsch, a man who rarely said anything negative about gear, made it a point to comment that it didn't look very attractive, for a top of the line model.

I've read that the electronic drive module of the GT record players tend to fail at this late stage of the game (almost fifty years on), but I have no personal experience with them. I have a Z100 with the old synchro-lab mechanical drive that is still going strong. Compared to a period Japanese DD it is noisy and clunky to use. One can hear the effects of the zero tracking error, but one can hear the other not so good stuff, too. Garrard (and BSR and Dual and Miracord--the established changer companies) never were able (for whatever reasons) to compete in the marketplace with either mainstream Japan product, or the then newer 'high end' offerings from Linn (and others like them). It was the end of an era.

 

[watchnerd]

Come on, you are being utterly ridiculous.

There is a resemblance to my eye.

 

[watchnerd]

How do you keep something like that dust free?

You use a dust cover.

You can choose a form-fitting kind, or a big plexi box.

 

[watchnerd]

Wow is noticeable on every one I have listened to, including your earlier youtube link.

The wow & flutter and speed stability on mine is about the same as a modern Rega Planar 10.

Not as good as a modern Technics, though.

The below test was a little fast, so motor speed was reduced.

 

[Hepcat]

Garrard (and BSR and Dual and Miracord--the established changer companies) never were able (for whatever reasons) to compete in the marketplace with either mainstream Japan product, or the then newer 'high end' offerings from Linn (and others like them).

How about Thorens? Was there a reason why you omitted Thorens? Thorens together with BSR, Garrard and Dual were the only "serious" turntable manufacturers I knew at the age of twenty in the early 1970's.

It was the end of an era.

Yes, true indeed. It's very sad since I'm a fan of belt-drive or idler wheel drive turntables but I still cling to what seems to be the increasingly antiquated notion that a good turntable shouldn't cost as much as a large refrigerator or big screen TV let alone a car.

 

[watchnerd]

the increasingly antiquated notion that a good turntable shouldn't cost as much as a large refrigerator or big screen TV let alone a car.

You can get a "good enough" turntable for far less, though.

Now that we have digital, there is no need to try to spend big bucks on SOTA vinyl reproduction unless you're just trying to be an analog perfectionist.

 

[anmpr1]

How about Thorens? Was there a reason why you omitted Thorens?

Thorens was similar to Linn (floating sub chassis single play, optional tonearm). That's what I meant when I wrote 'Linn and others like them'. Linn was probably most well known, and mostly because of Ivor. Thorens was a long established brand with a good dealer network. But for some reason they were never considered in the same class with Linn, at least in the US. TD-160 and 126 models were the most well regarded as I recall. But not the tonearms--those were considered a bit on the flaky and lightweight side, not suitable for use with typical MC, which were the rage.

There were a dozen or so similar models from that day--all variants on Ed Villchur design. The market was DD single play for low to mid range, and belt drive for the upper end. Some high end DD gained notice. But mostly it was otherwise. In my opinion (for what it's worth and as I remember it) a lot was simply fashion and herd mentality. Whatever Harry Pearson and his crew were hawking at any given time. Whatever the stores could make a big profit on.

With respect to Garrard, they stuck with the changer model till the end, but finally offered some single play direct drives. Yet nothing compelling to challenge Japanese product among the mass market. To most folks who knew about them, Garrard's industrial strenght idler drive 301/401 designs were not considered very interesting, although today they command very large dollars. I don't even believe Garrard imported those to the US, or if they did they hid them well.

 

[Robin L]

Thorens was similar to Linn (floating sub chassis single play, optional tonearm). That's what I meant when I wrote 'Linn and others like them'. Linn was probably most well known, and mostly because of Ivor. Thorens was a long established brand with a good dealer network. But for some reason they were never considered in the same class with Linn, at least in the US. TD-160 and 126 models were the most well regarded as I recall. But not the tonearms--those were considered a bit on the flaky and lightweight side, not suitable for use with typical MC, which were the rage.

There were a dozen or so similar models from that day--all variants on Ed Villchur design. The market was DD single play for low to mid range, and belt drive for the upper end. Some high end DD gained notice. But mostly it was otherwise. In my opinion (for what it's worth and as I remember it) a lot was simply fashion and herd mentality. Whatever Harry Pearson and his crew were hawking at any given time. Whatever the stores could make a big profit on.

With respect to Garrard, they stuck with the changer model till the end, but finally offered some single play direct drives. Yet nothing compelling to challenge Japanese product among the mass market. To most folks who knew about them, Garrard's industrial strenght idler drive 301/401 designs were not considered very interesting, although today they command very large dollars. I don't even believe Garrard imported those to the US, or if they did they hid them well.

https://vinylnirvana.com/ has been rebuilding old Thorens machines, upgrading the tonearms in the process. I had one of the better Thorens 'tables for a long time, overall a good machine, but not an attempt to define the high end. Reliable, easy to use, not as dynamic or open as my Merill Moded AR, or the Linn LP 12 that followed. But overall, pretty good, stable in use.

 

[paddycrow]

You use a dust cover.

You can choose a form-fitting kind, or a big plexi box.

I can tell you that the dust still gets in there.

 

[restorer-john]

I can tell you that the dust still gets in there.

Dust and HiFi go together like bread and butter. Just keep a new, wide, soft bristle paintbrush near your HiFi. That's what I do. Our house is dusty due to living on the top of a ridge overlooking a huge eucalypt forest. Lots of wind too.

It's frustrating, but I'd rather have fresh air, breezes and consequent dust, rather than shutting the place up and living in airconditioning.

 

[Soniclife]

You use a dust cover.

I do, even when playing records.

 

[Burky57]

Audio Science Review is new to me! This interesting thread caught my attention as I am a great lover of idler wheel Garrard turntables. The beautiful Garrard 301 was a world class turntable used professionally by radio stations around the world and replaced by the uprated Garrard 401 in 1965 to be finally phased out in 1976. As well documented earlier the onset of new belt drive turntables from the likes of Linn and the emergence of direct drive from Japan made the top end Garrard look somewhat antiquated. Companies like Linn did a great job of marketing their turntables as being well engineered and in particular being quieter than idler wheel designs having lower rumble. However as Linn and the Japanese sales soared the idler wheel design, while close to extinction hung on . . . In particular there was a cult following of Garrard 301 owners in Japan who were buying up old 301 motor units in Britain. Mr Shindo was one of the great Garrard Gurus who made all sorts of worthwhile modifications to Garrard bearings, platters and plinths that improved their audible performance. That 301 cult following finally found its way to the USA and back to the UK. There are companies trading in the UK now who specialise in Garrard turntable and SMD acoustics even make a new idler wheel turntable. I believe that Garrard now belongs to SME Audio and they are most interested in idler wheels, so who knows. My personal 301 is a bit like Trigger's broom as its hard to tell what is original. The aluminium die-cast chassis has been replaced with a stronger machined one. The main bearings and housing are uprated to support a 10Kg platter made of precision machined stainless steel. The motor is an improved 401 unit being fed by a precious quartz PSU all set in a granite (soon to be slate) skeletal plinth using a 12 inch SME V-12 arm. It's a rather large turntable! The good old Garrard 301/401 designs live on and can sound incredibly good when set up properly.

 

[AdamG]

Audio Science Review is new to me! This interesting thread caught my attention as I am a great lover of idler wheel Garrard turntables. The beautiful Garrard 301 was a world class turntable used professionally by radio stations around the world and replaced by the uprated Garrard 401 in 1965 to be finally phased out in 1976. As well documented earlier the onset of new belt drive turntables from the likes of Linn and the emergence of direct drive from Japan made the top end Garrard look somewhat antiquated. Companies like Linn did a great job of marketing their turntables as being well engineered and in particular being quieter than idler wheel designs having lower rumble. However as Linn and the Japanese sales soared the idler wheel design, while close to extinction hung on . . . In particular there was a cult following of Garrard 301 owners in Japan who were buying up old 301 motor units in Britain. Mr Shindo was one of the great Garrard Gurus who made all sorts of worthwhile modifications to Garrard bearings, platters and plinths that improved their audible performance. That 301 cult following finally found its way to the USA and back to the UK. There are companies trading in the UK now who specialise in Garrard turntable and SMD acoustics even make a new idler wheel turntable. I believe that Garrard now belongs to SME Audio and they are most interested in idler wheels, so who knows. My personal 301 is a bit like Trigger's broom as its hard to tell what is original. The aluminium die-cast chassis has been replaced with a stronger machined one. The main bearings and housing are uprated to support a 10Kg platter made of precision machined stainless steel. The motor is an improved 401 unit being fed by a precious quartz PSU all set in a granite (soon to be slate) skeletal plinth using a 12 inch SME V-12 arm. It's a rather large turntable! The good old Garrard 301/401 designs live on and can sound incredibly good when set up properly.

View attachment 131909

Welcome Aboard @Burky57.

 

[Burky57]

Welcome Aboard @Burky57.

Thank you Adam