Don't Believe Anything you Read on The Internet!

[Deleted member 17820]

Hi friends, I am a theologian(seminary educated) and dable in Christian apologetics. As such I LOVE to understand how people make arguments and form conclusions.
While talking with a friend of mine that is an AES member and genius of all things electrical and sound related(Retired Siemens) he awlays tells me
"Don't believe anything you read on the internet".

While picking up a pair of Paradigm Monitor bookshelf speakers at a local HiFi shop the sales persons' face lit up during conversation and he also told me

"Don't believe anything you read on the internet".

In logical reasoning this statement is the seed of what's called a "Self defeating argument", Because as soon as someone writes it online it is no longer true!
So I just broke the system by writing it down here You're are welcome.

A local pastor recently said a nice self defeating statement when he told the church:

"I don't judge people and you shouldn't either"

Just to see how silly people are when they say things like that I will post a valid form of those statements.

"Don't believe anything you read on the internet except this statement that I wrote on the internet"

"I don't judge people(except for passing judgment on people that are acting in an "immoral" way for judging others) and you shouldn't either.

I for one DO and will believe many things I read on the internet, especially at ASR, why? Because life is just more fun that way for me.
You may look up at the stars a thousands times and only see the amazing once, but that's 1 more time than those who never look up.

 

[Wombat]

When all of the religions agree, let me know their sources and reasoning.

The internet will have 'support' for nearly any held view.

Old saw.

 

[RayDunzl]

I am a theologian

Hmm...

the·o·lo·gian - a person who engages or is an expert in theology.

That didn't help.

the·ol·o·gy - the study of the nature of God and religious belief.

Now we're getting somewhere.

---

I used to encounter a door-to-door theologian once a month or so. I forget which denomination.

Eventually he began coming with a different trainee each time, since I was an excellent example of someone who didn't agree.

---

I visited the Mormon Tabernacle to hear the organ and choir practice.

Sister Mary Linda the Beautiful asked if I would like a guided tour.

"Sure".

"Get in line over there"

"Ok"

I declined when I found the tour was to be conducted by Sister Mildred Gertrude of Forklift.

---

Both of my grandfathers were protestant ministers.

It apparently isn't a genetic defliction.

---

I was taken to church every Sunday morning when I was young.

I enjoyed the music.

The morality lessons were useful.

The rest seemed a bit imaginary.

---

The lady across the street was a bible thumper.

She hated Halloween.

But at Christmas she decorated her front yard with a Manger Scene flanked by Frosty the Snowman and Rudolf the Reindeer.

---

That's all that comes to mind, right now.

No offense intended.

 

[Deleted member 17820]

Hmm...

the·o·lo·gian - a person who engages or is an expert in theology.

That didn't help.

the·ol·o·gy - the study of the nature of God and religious belief.

Now we're getting somewhere.

---

I used to encounter a door-to-door theologian once a month or so. I forget which denomination.

Eventually he began coming with a different trainee each time, since I was an excellent example of someone who didn't agree.

---

I visited the Mormon Tabernacle to hear the organ and choir practice.

Sister Mary Linda the Beautiful asked if I would like a guided tour.

"Sure".

"Get in line over there"

"Ok"

I declined when I found the tour was to be conducted by Sister Mildred Gertrude of Forklift.

---

Both of my grandfathers were protestant ministers.

It apparently isn't a genetic defliction.

---

I was taken to church every Sunday morning when I was young.

I enjoyed the music.

The morality lessons were useful.

The rest seemed a bit imaginary.

---

The lady across the street was a bible thumper.

She hated Halloween.

But at Christmas she decorated her front yard with a Manger Scene flanked by Frosty the Snowman and Rudolf the Reindeer.

---

That's all that comes to mind, right now.

No offense intended.

"Mary Linda the Beautiful" ? that sounds interesting.

There were some Mormons who would come around my house for about 4 years.
One thing is for sure, those ladies were sure beautiful!

 

[RayDunzl]

There were some Mormons who would come around my house for about 4 years.
One thing is for sure, those ladies were sure beautiful!

Depends partly on whether they work in recruitment or the warehouse.

---

At WorldCom, I worked with a young Mormon.

The company decided to send him to Utah to do some recruitment.

He didn't think he was qualified for that sort of activity.

Thusly I counseledeth him:

"Just go and convince a few that it would be nice to work here. Hey! YOU work here, right?

Then you fly from Salt Lake back to Tulsa, then everybody rents a car.

Next, they follow you here to Owasso. (Owasso Oklahoma - "the end of the trail")

To "seal the deal" all you gotta do is stand on that little hill over there, look up into the sky for a minute or two, and then point at the buildings, and say "This is the place".

 

[Robin L]

Think twice before you think.

 

[Deleted member 17820]

Think twice before you think.

The other day I was in my front yard and a chicken walked past me and crossed the road in front of my house. I really wish that chicken could speak so I could ask it why it's always crossing my road.

 

[tomtoo]

The statement dont belief everything. I would sign. Problems start when it get changed to belief only what i say. There we come into religions. No offence, just liked to give a hint.

 

[Robin L]

The other day I was in my front yard and a chicken walked past me and crossed the road in front of my house. I really wish that chicken could speak so I could ask it why it's always crossing my road.

 

[BDWoody]

"I don't judge people(except for passing judgment on people that are acting in an "immoral" way for judging others) and you shouldn't either.

So, in other words, I don't judge people unless they really deserve it...?

We all judge constantly...condemning is where judgement turns into endorsing a kind of divinely backed punishment, and I'd rather not get into that business.

Theology major here (undergrad)... I have definitely had some fun with the visiting LDS (Mormon) and 7th Day Adventists.

 

[Wombat]

So, in other words, I don't judge people unless they really deserve it...?

We all judge constantly...condemning is where judgement turns into endorsing a kind of divinely backed punishment, and I'd rather not get into that business.

Theology major here (undergrad)... I have definitely had some fun with the visiting LDS (Mormon) and 7th Day Adventists.

In all the years they have religiously come a'knockin', I haven't detected a sense of humour.

 

[BDWoody]

In all the years they have religiously come a'knockin', I haven't detected a sense of humour.

When the one teenager introduced himself as ''Elder" John, he did look a bit shocked when I laughed and told him that wasn't going to work out.
I suppose the humor was more on my side...

 

[Robin L]

"I don't judge people and you shouldn't either" .

"I know that there are people in this world who do not love their fellow man, and I hate people like that."
Tom Lehrer

 

[Killingbeans]

There were some Mormons who would come around my house for about 4 years.
One thing is for sure, those ladies were sure beautiful!

Depends partly on whether they work in recruitment or the warehouse.

Yeah, back when I was living in a dorm, Jehovah's Witnesses would occasionally send out a pair of gorgeous young things to do a round of knocking. Didn't take more than a few working brain cells to figure out what buttons they were hoping to push.

Back to topic: I'd say, believe whatever you want. But if it turns out to be BS, don't make braindead excuses for clinging on to status quo. Either cut it out like a cancer or at the very least acknowledge that it's BS and just keep enjoying the traditions/rituals/...whatever

 

[tomtoo]

Homeopathy, Religion, and high-end audio has one thing in common, it only works when you beliefe in it. But i have to say i pefer a jet engine that works even i not beliefe in it.

 

[FrantzM]

Slippery slopes..
Skating on thin ice on a warm day ...
etc ...

 

[Deleted member 17820]

So, in other words, I don't judge people unless they really deserve it...?

We all judge constantly...condemning is where judgement turns into endorsing a kind of divinely backed punishment, and I'd rather not get into that business.

Theology major here (undergrad)... I have definitely had some fun with the visiting LDS (Mormon) and 7th Day Adventists.

Exellent point and question of clarification. When many people, most in my experience, use the word "Judge" it is in context of telling others what is "right or wrong".
Condenmation is the worst kind, this leads to slander, which is also very bad.

A local pastor preached a sermon on "Do not judge others." So I did what you did here BDwoody, I sought clarification through a practice simply called "what do you mean"

This is a practice used in conversation where instead of reacting, possibly badly to something that's said, you ask the person "what do you mean" until you get a clear and valid idea of what the really mean, which you may agree with!

Anyways I asked the pastor
"What do you mean by Judge people"
And he said "I left it vague for a reason"!

An instruction to NOT do something only has impact if you are clear on what it is.

I have spent manny hous studying "judgment", Here are the cliff notes.

1. Using reason to determine what is right from wrong
2. Condeming others
3. Slandering others

Praxis, or proper aplication of knowledge shows that by doing number 1 right, you will not do number 2 or 3!
In my judgment it is wrong to slander and condem people so I try to never do it.

 

[BDWoody]

Exellent point and question of clarification. When many people, most in my experience, use the word "Judge" it is in context of telling others what is "right or wrong".
Condenmation is the worst kind, this leads to slander, which is also very bad.

A local pastor preached a sermon on "Do not judge others." So I did what you did here BDwoody, I sought clarification through a practice simply called "what do you mean"

This is a practice used in conversation where instead of reacting, possibly badly to something that's said, you ask the person "what do you mean" until you get a clear and valid idea of what the really mean, which you may agree with!

Anyways I asked the pastor
"What do you mean by Judge people"
And he said "I left it vague for a reason"!

An instruction to NOT do something only has impact if you are clear on what it is.

I have spent manny hous studying "judgment", Here are the cliff notes.

1. Using reason to determine what is right from wrong
2. Condeming others
3. Slandering others

Praxis, or proper aplication of knowledge shows that by doing number 1 right, you will not do number 2 or 3!
In my judgment it is wrong to slander and condem people so I try to never do it.

And this is all reminding me why I now avoid religious discussions religiously.

 

[Deleted member 17820]

Homeopathy, Religion, and high-end audio has one thing in common, it only works when you beliefe in it. But i have to say i pefer a jet engine that works even i not beliefe in it.

What do you mean by "work"

The beleif in christianity is through faith in Jesus:
1. You are tranformed eternally by being filled with the holy spirit and forgiven of sins now
2. You are brought back into right relation with God for eternal life in some heavenly place

Those 2 things can not be proven to "work" now, however, there are many stories of people who say they were living a bad or destructive life, found God, then became more loving and caring people. Although personal growth and transforamtion or not only a result of personal belief in salvation/God it is still a demonstrable proof of change, or that something is working.
Theists would atribute this change to the power of God while skeptics would claim it is the result of human resilance and positive thinking.

Budhists also hold some logically simular beliefs:
1. That people are reincarnated and come back to grow more mature and become better people
2. That a state of rest in the after life can be achieved.

In the budhist view, the world should be becoming a better place because we all get to grow and muture into kinder and more loving people.
This idea can be tested by looking at world problems and seeing if the trend matches their beleifs.

In the Christian view, and Bible, it teaches that even with the Gospel in the world, the world will still become a worser(is that a word?) place.
So the Bible never claims religion will solve any world problems and Jesus' own words are that the world will get worse and not better (for the time being).

Once again, I am not Bible thumping but just looking at claims.
There are sects of christianity that beleive they will make the world into a better place through religion BUT it is not mainstream or found in any major historical creed.
https://www.gotquestions.org/seven-mountain-mandate.html

 

[Deleted member 17820]

And this is all reminding me why I now avoid religious discussions religiously.

True.
Now is hard time for anyone whose main profession is religion or politics!

I meant for this thread to be about logic and reason and I probably could have veiled my background while still discousing that topic.

For example, me at a local HiFi shop last month:
Salesaperson
"This is an audioquest DOUBLE balanced RCA cable"
me
"There is no balanced signal, single ended RCA cable"
SP
"It's not the signal that's balance it's the cable"
Me
""