Best small subwoofers with near-20Hz performance?

[Willem]

The speaker market is geographically very segmented. Of smallish US offerings only SVS is more or less easily available in most EU countries. Cheapest would be BK, and they have gloss white finishes. Mind you, many of their models do not have auto on/off so you would need to add a master slave power strip. Other options are REL, with really nice looking small subs, or B&W. In which country are you, and how big is the room?

 

[napilopez]

@napilopez
Is your message for me ?
It's not my priority to look for a subwoofer now, but I was just wondering about that animal ..

I don't undesrstand your graphic.
Would it mean that the KEF F92 has SPL80 at ... 4Hz ???

I just found below graph which seems more realistic IMHO

View attachment 79821

No it was addressed to the OP. But thanks for that image, I see it's from What Hifi's review.

Problem is that it doesn't say what the maximum output is nor what the measured distance was, which doesn't tell us much about the subs output capability.

The next image shows the speaker doing ~93 dB at 20hz, but again it's not clear if the sub is playing at it's max output or how far the speaker was measured from:

With DSP you can technically make a 5-inch woofer play 10hz too, but it won't play it very loud.

 

[Koeitje]

I have an SB-2000 and still want to add a second one. Goes down to 20hz and is very compact.

 

[radio3]

I'd go with the bass shakers someone already mentioned. On your chair, sofa or what have you. Bass you can FEEL.
https://www.parts-express.com/cat/bass-shakers/3524

It's a good idea, but I actually listen to headphones more when listening alone. My speakers are for social occasions when people could be seated or standing anywhere.

 

[Willem]

Whatever you do, make sure you have some dsp room eq, either built in, like in the SB2000 pro, or separately, such as the Antimode 8033.

 

[radio3]

The speaker market is geographically very segmented. Of smallish US offerings only SVS is more or less easily available in most EU countries. Cheapest would be BK, and they have gloss white finishes. Mind you, many of their models do not have auto on/off so you would need to add a master slave power strip. Other options are REL, with really nice looking small subs, or B&W. In which country are you, and how big is the room?

I'm in continental Europe and the room is 4.5x6x3.8 meter, which is 14.8x19.7x12.5 feet (~3500ft^3). So it's a Medium-Large room according to Audioholics calculator. According to their guidelines, 3 subwoofers that could each do 97 dB at 4 meters should do the trick.

I actually own a BK XLS200 and was disappointed. It badly underperforms a KRK10S I had, though it is smaller. It a 10" sealed with Peerless XXLS woofer. I think the enclosure is just too small because the response drops of a cliff at 28Hz and if I let it get any signal below there it just distorts terribly.

 

[radio3]

Whatever you do, make sure you have some dsp room eq, either built in, like in the SB2000 pro, or separately, such as the Antimode 8033.

Right now I'm using a MiniDSP DDRC-24 with Dirac Live 3.0. Yes, I couldn't imagine not having such a device.

 

[radio3]

@napilopez
Is your message for me ?
It's not my priority to look for a subwoofer now, but I was just wondering about that animal ..

I don't undesrstand your graphic.
Would it mean that the KEF F92 has SPL80 at ... 4Hz ???

I just found below graph which seems more realistic IMHO

View attachment 79821

Are you able to find any test results for the KEF R400B? It looks like it might be a lower power version of the same basic design and could conceivably found at much more reasonable prices second hand. My budget is whatever it takes to get say 22Hz at reference levels though I'm hardly rich will need to do it at most sensible possible cost, for example buying second hand where possible.

 

[Willem]

OK you already have the dsp room eq, so you do not need to have that in the subs. Your BK experience shows the importance of digital control of the amplifier/driver combination. SVS uses this to ensure that the driver is never overstressed. The lower it has to go, the more the maximum level is reduced, and hence distortion, or, top put it the other way, the louder it has to play, the more the low end extension is reduced to prevent excessive distortion. My B&W PV1d has the same, and it means it can go down to 7 Hz (and it probably does, I have measured 10 Hz), but only at modest levels that are not enough for nuclear explosions and the like.
Your room is not that large (with a nice high ceiling) so that indeed argues against mega subs.

 

[radio3]

Yeah I thought since the BK is sealed and has a good woofer and amp then having four of them or something would let me get away with boosting their bottom half octave with EQ. That turned out not to be the case. It drops off so sharply that it might as well have a port tuned to 30Hz or something. I actually have to cut those frequencies, quite the opposite of boosting them.

 

[Koeitje]

I'm in continental Europe and the room is 4.5x6x3.8 meter, which is 14.8x19.7x12.5 feet. I actually own a BK and was disappointed. It badly underperforms a KRK10S I had, though it was smaller. It a 10" sealed with Peerless XXLS woofer. I think the enclosure is just too small because the response drops of a cliff at 28Hz and if I let it get any signal below there it just distorts terribly.

The woofer is probably too small. You can't go that low with only a 10" in a sealed enclosure. You can with a 10" in a massive ported box like the PB1000 though.

If you want to go low and compact you need a closed sub with a big driver. 12" is really the minimum there.

 

[Willem]

Is this the BK gemini ii?

 

[radio3]

Is this the BK gemini ii?

No it's the XLS200. It doesn't perform as I expected from website and I guess I'll have to sell it. They say it does 17Hz at -6 and I haven't gotten anything of the sort. I get almost nothing useful below 28Hz, lesson learned. I should say that that's measured at seating position, not trying to say BK is scammy or anything, just that I assumed too much. I haven't measured it near-field but I can say the KRK 10S performed MUCH better at listening position.

 

[Willem]

Good to know because I was considering a Gemini for my desktop system. If even the bigger XLS200 does not perform well I had better go for the SB1000 then. See here for the importance of the dsp control of subwoofer loudness and extension: https://www.svsound.com/blogs/subwoofer-setup-and-tuning/subwoofer-dsp

 

[LearningToSmile]

No it's the XLS200. It doesn't perform as I expected from website and I guess I'll have to sell it. They say it does 17Hz at -6 and I haven't gotten anything of the sort. I get almost nothing useful below 28Hz, lesson learned. I should say that that's measured at seating position, not trying to say BK is scammy or anything, just that I assumed too much. I haven't measured it near-field but I can say the KRK 10S performed MUCH better at listening position.

That's rough, I'm also in Europe and starting to look for a subwoofer, and I considered BK Electronics - the things that put me off are the really weird and inconsistent way they put the specifications on the website, lack of reviews with measurements, as well as claims of hiss when no sound is playing in some reviews(I can deal with some, my speakers have some hiss, but I'd rather not add more). But if what you're saying is true they're completely off my list.

So far for me the options that made the most sense are either SVS(independent measurements available, good reputation, good price/performance, available locally - barely any downsides) or Arendal(CEA 2010 measurements available from manufacturer). But I only looked at options under 1000 euro, since that is my hard limit for now.

 

[LTig]

I’ve been making do with subwoofers that perform well down to around 28Hz for years and can’t take not having that bottom half octave anymore.

However, I also live in a small flat with a modern scandinavian decor that really doesn’t accommodate huge black boxes. What I’d really like is to have 3 small white subwoofers working In coordination to finally give me that 20Hz performance. I can’t seem to find anything, though.

I thought about trying to get some KEF R400bs, but I’m not so sure they‘d really give me more extension. They do fit the bill in every other way, particularly with the opposing woofers making it possible to stow one or two up high on bookshelves or something.

I also thought about some Rythmik L12s, but the shipping to Europe is crazy, like $500 or something just for one pair.

Im all out of ideas. Anyone have any more?

Have a look at Nubert subs.

 

[Soniclife]

No it's the XLS200. It doesn't perform as I expected from website and I guess I'll have to sell it. They say it does 17Hz at -6 and I haven't gotten anything of the sort. I get almost nothing useful below 28Hz, lesson learned. I should say that that's measured at seating position, not trying to say BK is scammy or anything, just that I assumed too much. I haven't measured it near-field but I can say the KRK 10S performed MUCH better at listening position.

Have you experimented with positioning of the sub? There is another thread here were someone was very disappointed in a new gelelec sub initially because they had it in a bad position, moving the sub changed things a lot.

 

[radio3]

Have you experimented with positioning of the sub? There is another thread here were someone was very disappointed in a new gelelec sub initially because they had it in a bad position, moving the sub changed things a lot.

Yes I should probably do that, but I had the KRK 10S in the exact same location and it performed better. I don't have a lot of flexibility. But it's worth verifying that the particular location (a corner) isn't aberrantly bad. Even if it is, though, it's clear I need a more capable subwoofer regardless.

 

[radio3]

Have a look at Nubert subs.

Thanks for the tip. Wish I spoke German or that they had international web site. Do you by any chance have any measurements or anything for them?

 

[morpheusX]

@radio3, what is your budget and max dimensions for each sub?