So basically all daps are worthless shit?

[Radish]

I'm new to this whole 'audio' hobby, after discovering a repaired cassette walkman in a store, I became more interested in music devices. After reading a couple posts on different forums, I bought my first good quality audio gear a hd 600 and an Er2xr. I have always wanted a portable music player, after spending a couple days on forums I found a few decent ones (Fiio m11, hiby r5, r6 pro, Sony zx300...). But a friend of mine who is more into this measurement and frequency side of things told me to get an used LG and don't care about daps as they all are 'worthless shit'. After spending a couple hours on this forum, Even though I don't know any of the technical mumbo jumbo, I think it might be true. but I just wanted to ask you guys if there any daps that are worth buying? I just want a device that's main job is playing music, I have previously owned a couple repaired walkmans, an old iPod, a zune hd and an iPod touch. I think i want a dap with an atleast acceptable battery life, powerful enough to drive hard to drive headphones and something which has a low noise floor in case I buy a highly sensitive iem in the future. I like owning all my music but i find streaming a bit easier for my lazy ass, so suggest me all kind of daps (pure music daps, daps with android, with touch screen, without touch screen withorwithout bluetooth idc)

 

[Jimbob54]

I'm new to this whole 'audio' hobby, after discovering a repaired cassette walkman in a store, I became more interested in music devices. After reading a couple posts on different forums, I bought my first good quality audio gear a hd 600 and an Er2xr. I have always wanted a portable music player, after spending a couple days on forums I found a few decent ones (Fiio m11, hiby r5, r6 pro, Sony zx300...). But a friend of mine who is more into this measurement and frequency side of things told me to get an used LG and don't care about daps as they all are 'worthless shit'. After spending a couple hours on this forum, Even though I don't know any of the technical mumbo jumbo, I think it might be true. but I just wanted to ask you guys if there any daps that are worth buying?

I think you need to be clear about what you want from a DAP, bearing in mind you will probably carrying a phone everywhere you have a DAP. A good dongle DAC/amp on a phone can produce better results than many DAPs

DAPs (can) have very poor battery life if they use wifi, connect to streaming services etc. The Android based ones are basically poorly specced Android phones with (maybe) a better DAC/ headphone amp.

Of the ones measured here, the iBasso ones seem to come out well. But whether they meet your criteria depends on above.

 

[Frank Dernie]

I have an old Colorfly. It has plenty of power but is otherwise inconvenient to use and limited in the files it can play.
It sounds fine but mainly I like the walnut case and steampunk styling.
I use my phone far more for listening with headphones nowadays.

 

[Matias]

Calyx M is/was a very good measuring DAP for 1k usd, although its battery lasted about 4 hours only.

http://www.calyxm.com/

Output Voltage: 1.25V rms @ 16 Ohm
Frequency Response: 20Hz~32kHz
THD+N: 0.0008%@1kHz at 32 Ohm, 0.004%@1kHz at 16 Ohm
Channel Separation: 130dB@1kHz
Dynamic Range: 114dB

 

[maverickronin]

The measurements on both phones and DAPs are all over the place.

The best reason to get a DAP nowadays is usability since most DAPs still have real buttons.

 

[Matias]

The truth is that a 20-50 usd dongle and a cell phone is hard to beat.

 

[Radish]

I think you need to be clear about what you want from a DAP, bearing in mind you will probably carrying a phone everywhere you have a DAP. A good dongle DAC/amp on a phone can produce better results than many DAPs

DAPs (can) have very poor battery life if they use wifi, connect to streaming services etc. The Android based ones are basically poorly specced Android phones with (maybe) a better DAC/ headphone amp.

Of the ones measured here, the iBasso ones seem to come out well. But whether they meet your criteria depends on above.

I edited my post now

 

[monkeyboy]

Cowon makes a great DAP that also measures well (see review). I have a P1, and it has an optical SPDIF out that I pump into my headphone DAC/amp so I can use use the DAP for storage/playback when at home....

 

[julian_hughes]

.... get an used LG and don't care about daps as they all are 'worthless shit'. After spending a couple hours on this forum, Even though I don't know any of the technical mumbo jumbo, I think it might be true....

I think your friend has a point. Some of the insanely expensive Sony DAPs might be very good but most stuff out there measures quite poorly, has awful UI, can't play true gapless, only supports limited formats and has truly terrible battery life. The single advantage these days, it seems to me, of a dedicated DAP is that the more expensive ones can drive full size headphones like your Sennheisers. I used to buy expensive DAPs (Sony, iRiver) and cheap ones too (Sandisk/Sansa) and still have a few, but I don't use them any more. I use an old LG V20. It has great audio output, can drive even my Planar Magnetic headphones, and it accommodates a 512GB microSD card and a big aftermarket battery which gives me playback battery life measured in days, not hours. As well as being a DAP playing its own files I can control my home audio streaming with it (BubbleUPnP) and even use its IR blaster to control my home amplifiers. My guess is that for under $250 you could easily find an old LG V20 in great condition, add a microSD, big battery and spend about $10 on BubbleUPnP and Neutron Music Player and/or USB Audio Player PRO (both support bit perfect playback) from the Play store. I don't use mine as a phone as I prefer my Sony, but if you like LG's Android offering it obviously can do that too.

 

[Radish]

Calyx M is/was a very good measuring DAP for 1k usd, although its battery lasted about 4 hours only.

http://www.calyxm.com/

Output Voltage: 1.25V rms @ 16 Ohm
Frequency Response: 20Hz~32kHz
THD+N: 0.0008%@1kHz at 32 Ohm, 0.004%@1kHz at 16 Ohm
Channel Separation: 130dB@1kHz
Dynamic Range: 114dB

View attachment 79560

This is on my radar, I tried this a while back absolutely loved this.

 

[Frank Dernie]

The measurements on both phones and DAPs are all over the place.

The best reason to get a DAP nowadays is usability since most DAPs still have real buttons.

I bought one because I liked the styling and case but it is android and touch screen so the worst of all worlds so I don't use it.
The old Colorfly has excellent performance and power on the few types of files it plays and a delightful eccentric interface driven by buttons!

 

[Jimbob54]

I have an old Colorfly. It has plenty of power but is otherwise inconvenient to use and limited in the files it can play.
It sounds fine but mainly I like the walnut case and steampunk styling.
I use my phone far more for listening with headphones nowadays.

I like this . It looks like an early TV remote.

 

[riker1384]

That Colorfly looks cool, but is that slider a volume control? That would be dangerous, a little bump could send it to max volume and blow out your speakers or eardrums.

 

[Frank Dernie]

That Colorfly looks cool, but is that slider a volume control? That would be dangerous, a little bump could send it to max volume and blow out your speakers or eardrums.

Yes, that is the volume control. It has a good feel and it would need a deliberate slide to change volume (or a careless push into a tight pocket!).
If I am using it I just put it down near me.
I haven't used it for a while and this thread has encouraged me to charge it again.
Edit, the other good thing is it has 2 power levels with the ¼" jack being powerful enough for anything I have tried and the ⅛" fine for in-ears.

 

[Robin L]

I use my DAPs all the time. Both are low-end Fiio, the original X1 and the M3K, both sound better hooked up to an external amp, booth sound decent without. It was a practical way of carrying around music I already had on CD. The M3K has a 500gb Micro SD card, is small and very pocketable. Usually more power=more weight, so I use relatively efficient headphones. I'm "music first" as Darko would put it, so I can't say I'm seeking ultimate fidelity. Streaming on my dirt-cheap Acer Aspire 5 sounds fine, my cellphone, a Moto 5 or so, lacks volume and impact. Both DAPs have better volume than my phone, but the Acer laptop beats the both of them. I suspect that streaming via a good sounding phone can sound fine and offer up a huge catalog of music. On the other hand, the music I've already bought now fits in my pocket, the real point, for me, of my DAPs. Both DAPs have excellent battery life, over 8 hours with the X1, over 12 with the M3K.

 

[phoenixdogfan]

With the advent of 4g Smartphones, high quality streaming services, and dongle dacs the price of a ham sandwich, I'd say yes.

 

[watchnerd]

I have an old Colorfly. It has plenty of power but is otherwise inconvenient to use and limited in the files it can play.
It sounds fine but mainly I like the walnut case and steampunk styling.
I use my phone far more for listening with headphones nowadays.

Mobile sound is always compromised in terms of quality.

Why also make it inconvenient?

DAPs are / were a transition technology and are now a dead-end.

If I want expensive and inconvenient, I'll listen to LPs.

 

[watchnerd]

The truth is that a 20-50 usd dongle and a cell phone is hard to beat.

I don't even both with dongles these days, given wireless headphone improvements.

 

[q3cpma]

Look into something that can run Rockbox. The only modern DAP that can is the Xduoo X3 II, I believe, which is quite nice.

 

[Cahudson42]

You can have a nicely serviceable DAP using a $30 TracFone:
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07QHQ79XH/

Throw away the SIM card and TracFone stuff. The phone will work perfectly well on 2.4g wifi without it.

The LG Rebel is a tremendous value:
Qualcomm Snapdragon chipset
Decent audio - likely a WDC9xx of some type
Supports usb OTG if you wish to use a dongle or other external DAC
Easily replaced and inexpensive battery
Takes microSD card
Standard Android 8.1
Bluetooth source (for using BT phones/IEMs)

I use Amazon Music, Neutralizer EQ. SHP9500 phones.