Schiit Magnius Balanced Headphone Amp Review

[MadMan]

It's not pseudo marketing; it's just marketing. I really don't see anything even slightly objectionable about it. They are cooperating to try to give potential customers and readers accurate information about a new product. Marketing at its best.

Schiit is confident it will pass ASR's tough objective muster; maybe they considered ASR's unique SINAD spec. when they designed this. If so, that's good. I value that spec.

I appreciate @T.M.Noble sharing resources and insight, facilitating the availability of information when it is most valuable. I don't think a $200 unit is compromising the integrity of the review. @amirm can have a review that is much more valuable too, because virtually everyone who buys the product will be able to read the review first; rather than only those who buy it a couple weeks or more after launch.

As others have mentioned in this thread, this product looks like another part of what makes this such a great time for listening to music on headphones at home; another important incremental step in a recent rapid stream of inexpensive excellent-measuring DACs and headphone amps.

I call it pseudo...call it 'viral' or whatever you want. Companies using 'independent' or 'community' or whatever you want to call it reviewers by sending them products, is obviously different from users sending in products. It's also different from 'blatant' marketing like advertising or old-fashioned publications that get review units sent in and have an additional commercial relationship with the manufacturer because the implication with 'pseudo' marketing is that there's no conflict of interest. I trust Amir's reviews, that's not the issue, the issue is the potential highjacking of that trust, *especially for products on release*.

 

[Swtoby]

I agree, although some folks are going to question the independence no matter what (a certain other forum is convinced of an under the table business deal between Topping and ASR).

I can see how that could happen. Likewise, it does seem the Schiit Happened thread over at Head-Fi is one ginormous advertisment for the brand. But as a consumer I know the bias because Jason Stoddard made no secret of his affiliation. It took me a while to clue into the fact that JohnYang is an engineer at Topping. I don't understand why he isn't identified as an "insider" or "manufacturer" like others with a financial interest have been. Especially as there are a lot of posts extolling the virtues of Topping products.

 

[PeteL]

I call it pseudo...call it 'viral' or whatever you want. Companies using 'independent' or 'community' or whatever you want to call it reviewers by sending them products, is obviously different from users sending in products. It's also different from 'blatant' marketing like advertising or old-fashioned publications that get review units sent in and have an additional commercial relationship with the manufacturer because the implication with 'pseudo' marketing is that there's no conflict of interest. I trust Amir's reviews, that's not the issue, the issue is the potential highjacking of that trust, *especially for products on release*.

Well yes. there is no way around it any manufacturer will have to market themselves somehow. Sending products for review is one of the way and if you are confident about your product this is one obvious thing you need to do. When I mentioned earlyer that Shiit almost don't do marketing what I meant by that is when most other will allow for 15-20% of the sale price of a product to be chewed for advertisement, like you HAVE to spend 20$ to input 100$, as a business model, this metric is likely a magnitude smaller at Schiit, you don't see banners and adds pop up everywhere you browse.
Now having said that, sending product is not unethical, I found that the lack of ethic is mostly the other way around. Like, I will review your product, vouch for it, If you buy advertisement on my site or magazine. This is extremely common and should be a firm no for any companies.

 

[Thomas savage]

People finding fault with a brilliant balanced headphone amp that has slightly worse performance ( albeit probably audibly identical) through unbalanced because in the end of the day they wanted to keep it at a great price point and didn't want to crowd out other products in their range.

The mind boggles !

Getting this product in this form and with the respective performance is near heroic , certainly incredible.

 

[Labjr]

People finding fault with a brilliant balanced headphone amp that has slightly worse performance ( albeit probably audibly identical) through unbalanced because in the end of the day they wanted to keep it at a great price point and didn't want to crowd out other products in their range.

The mind boggles !

Getting this product in this form and with the respective performance is near heroic , certainly incredible.

And it's not like you have to invest many thousands and watch it depreciate like a new sports car. The most you can lose is a couple hundred but you're likely to get half of that back if you decide to upgrade in the future. Although, I'm not sure what you'd replace it with.

 

[T.M.Noble]

$398 for a fully balanced system with 5 watts @32 ohm and more power than a 789 @ 300/600 ohm.

That's exceptional value right there.

We like to think so.

 

[Thomas savage]

It took me a while to clue into the fact that JohnYang is an engineer at Topping. I don't understand why he isn't identified as an "insider" or "manufacturer" like others with a financial interest have been. Especially as there are a lot of posts extolling the virtues of Topping products.

Good point well made , I'm investigating this as I think your right .

 

[T.M.Noble]

I don't see anything intrinsically wrong with manufacturers sending things in either, but it can be misleading when they pick and choose what gear to send in. This can give a biased view of a company's engineering.

For example, unless I'm mistaken, Schiit has not sent in a Bifrost 2 to measure . (My guess is likely due to abysmal IMD and multitone measurements.) So they get the "halo" effect from good measurements of gear like the Modi 3, Modius, Magnius, etc., while avoiding a negative halo from some of their other gear.

Why would I promote a unit on this forum that I know the consumer base will not enjoy? We are not trying to hide or highlight any product. We make what we want to make. Modius and Magnius were made to cater directly to a specific customer, one we were not serving to the best of our abilities.

We make tube amps that measure like crap but there are giant swaths of people who enjoy them. It's not wrong to provide customers with what they want, even if that does not align with someones rubric. People here had a criticism of our units. We responded by making a group of products that you can enjoy, that measure well and are at a great price. I would call that a win for both of us.

 

[PuX]

ok, one more point:

Schiit now has a catalogue of DACs and headphone amps in all price categories, but the only ones that perform well judging by measurements are Modius, Magnius, latest Modi and Magni Heresy, from what I remember from previous reviews.

So only lower end products, sold in large quantities.

This could mean that they realised their issues and started rebuilding the lineup from the bottom.

Or something else.

I tried to look for alternative measurements - couldn't find much. If there are any and they matching measurements here, good for Schiit. Especially if the unit was purchased, not sent by the company.

I don't really have suspicions when a company like JDS Labs sends their new stuff for measurements - because they have a good reputation, I own their products and they perform as expected.

On the other hand Schiit's older stuff was just disappointing, I still have the original Fulla and haven't bothered to sell it yet.

I sincerely think that on this case you are creating a fuss for an issue that don't exist.

Maybe, and it's not very difficult to prove scientifically - just a few more measurements from different people or different units and we'd know for sure.

For your second point, you couldn't be more wrong. Schiit simply almost don't do marketing, their success is because they are pretty much the only company, except some very small players that can compete with the pricing of manufacturing in Asia.

You are confusing advertisement with marketing. Maybe they don't advertise much but even the company name is a prime example of viral marketing. also they have been sending units for reviews to loads of magazines etc. And pretty much always receive good reviews (except on audiosciencereview, since the reviews are based on measurements here) - why? Same goes for forums - no matter which audio forum you check, you'll find people hyping Schiit. Some of them are fans of course, but I suspect at least some of it is marketing.

Sounds like you are just making baseless accusations and conspiracy theories.

Enlighten me, what is the conspiracy here?

We have a sample size of one and a company with a history of varying measurements across units of the same product in the past.

 

[Thomas savage]

Why would I promote a unit on this forum that I know the consumer base will not enjoy? We are not trying to hide or highlight any product. We make what we want to make. Modius and Magnius were made to cater directly to a specific customer, one we were not serving to the best of our abilities.

We make tube amps that measure like crap but there are giant swaths of people who enjoy them. It's not wrong to provide customers with what they want, even if that does not align with someones rubric. People here had a criticism of our units. We responded by making a group of products that you can enjoy, that measure well and are at a great price. I would call that a win for both of us.

When you sell arms to both sides it's best to keep them from finding out

 

[T.M.Noble]

I call it pseudo...call it 'viral' or whatever you want. Companies using 'independent' or 'community' or whatever you want to call it reviewers by sending them products, is obviously different from users sending in products. It's also different from 'blatant' marketing like advertising or old-fashioned publications that get review units sent in and have an additional commercial relationship with the manufacturer because the implication with 'pseudo' marketing is that there's no conflict of interest. I trust Amir's reviews, that's not the issue, the issue is the potential highjacking of that trust, *especially for products on release*.

To be clear, I do not ask Amir for reviews. I send him products I think he may find interesting and he can post a review or not. Nor is his recommendation ever expected. The reason why I send in units is because I can guarantee the units have not been tempered with or damaged. I want people to judge the product as it is meant to perform.

 

[T.M.Noble]

When you sell arms to both sides it's best to keep them from finding out

Damn! I knew I was doing something wrong. Me and my big mouth.

 

[Thomas savage]

ok, one more point:

Schiit now has a catalogue of DACs and headphone amps in all price categories, but the only ones that perform well judging by measurements are Modius, Magnius, latest Modi and Magni Heresy, from what I remember from previous reviews.

So only lower end products, sold in large quantities.

This could mean that they realised their issues and started rebuilding the lineup from the bottom.

Or something else.

I tried to look for alternative measurements - couldn't find much. If there are any and they matching measurements here, good for Schiit. Especially if the unit was purchased, not sent by the company.

I don't really have suspicions when a company like JDS Labs sends their new stuff for measurements - because they have a good reputation, I own their products and they perform as expected.

On the other hand Schiit's older stuff was just disappointing, I still have the original Fulla and haven't bothered to sell it yet.


Maybe, and it's not very difficult to prove scientifically - just a few more measurements from different people or different units and we'd know for sure.


You are confusing advertisement with marketing. Maybe they don't advertise much but even the company name is a prime example of viral marketing. also they have been sending units for reviews to loads of magazines etc. And pretty much always receive good reviews (except on audiosciencereview, since the reviews are based on measurements here) - why? Same goes for forums - no matter which audio forum you check, you'll find people hyping Schiit. Some of them are fans of course, but I suspect at least some of it is marketing.


Enlighten me, what is the conspiracy here?

We have a sample size of one and a company with a history of varying measurements across units of the same product in the past.

Schiit are a very savvy outfit, they saw a growing market of audio enthusiasts that wanted something different to what they were offering and then they made it all the while not abandoning their more traditional base .

Also if this was a cherry pick unit you'd think they'd of included the few more parts to make the single ended output a little more impressive from a measurement pov. And yes they are brilliant at the guerrilla marketing.

They seem to be rather good at everything, how annoying ha ha

 

[PeteL]

ok, one more point:




You are confusing advertisement with marketing. Maybe they don't advertise much but even the company name is a prime example of viral marketing. also they have been sending units for reviews to loads of magazines etc. And pretty much always receive good reviews (except on audiosciencereview, since the reviews are based on measurements here) - why? Same goes for forums - no matter which audio forum you check, you'll find people hyping Schiit. Some of them are fans of course, but I suspect at least some of it is marketing.

Yes you are right, I should have been more specific, Advertisement is not the only form of marketing, but it's an important one, but the reasoning still stick tough, Schiit are good at the little marketing they do but saying that a company that don't advertise owe 99% of their success to marketing would be an odd phenomenon

 

[T.M.Noble]

ok, one more point:

Schiit now has a catalogue of DACs and headphone amps in all price categories, but the only ones that perform well judging by measurements are Modius, Magnius, latest Modi and Magni Heresy, from what I remember from previous reviews.

So only lower end products, sold in large quantities.

This could mean that they realised their issues and started rebuilding the lineup from the bottom.

Or something else.

I tried to look for alternative measurements - couldn't find much. If there are any and they matching measurements here, good for Schiit. Especially if the unit was purchased, not sent by the company.

I don't really have suspicions when a company like JDS Labs sends their new stuff for measurements - because they have a good reputation, I own their products and they perform as expected.

On the other hand Schiit's older stuff was just disappointing, I still have the original Fulla and haven't bothered to sell it yet.


Maybe, and it's not very difficult to prove scientifically - just a few more measurements from different people or different units and we'd know for sure.


You are confusing advertisement with marketing. Maybe they don't advertise much but even the company name is a prime example of viral marketing. also they have been sending units for reviews to loads of magazines etc. And pretty much always receive good reviews (except on audiosciencereview, since the reviews are based on measurements here) - why? Same goes for forums - no matter which audio forum you check, you'll find people hyping Schiit. Some of them are fans of course, but I suspect at least some of it is marketing.


Enlighten me, what is the conspiracy here?

We have a sample size of one and a company with a history of varying measurements across units of the same product in the past.

Rather than trying to talk you out of calling my company dishonest and unscrupulous directly I will make you an offer: order one of these new products under pseudonym and send it to Amir for testing. Once you have done this give me all your info and I will fully reimburse you if you do not want to keep the unit. No shipping fee restocking, any of that. All you need to is put up the initial purchase.

Or if that isn't what you want I'll zoom call you. I will virtually take you in our warehouse grab a random unit of your choice off the shelf and test it in front of you live.

Your call. Let's put this to bed.

 

[Jimbob54]

Good point well made , I'm investigating this as I think your right .

Affiliation to Topping but also technical expert "badge" on his profile? Sounds about right

 

[Vasr]

We have a sample size of one and a company with a history of varying measurements across units of the same product in the past.

To borrow Hanlon's razor:
Never attribute to malice that which can be explained by Shiittiness alone.

Schiit isn't the first company to have varying measuring products nor will it be the last. That is neither proof nor disproof of any skullduggery.

 

[Helicopter]

Rather than trying to talk you out of calling my company dishonest and unscrupulous directly I will make you an offer: order one of these new products under pseudonym and send it to Amir for testing. Once you have done this give me all your info and I will fully reimburse you if you do not want to keep the unit. No shipping fee restocking, any of that. All you need to is put up the initial purchase.

Or if that isn't what you want I'll zoom call you. I will virtually take you in our warehouse grab a random unit of your choice off the shelf and test it in front of you live.

Your call. Let's put this to bed.

I have a Hel, a Heresy, a Modi 3, a Modius, and a Magnius Amir can borrow any time if he actually wants to measure more units of the same product for some reason.

Not coincidentally, a pretty good list of products for you to have included in your target marketing here.

 

[Vini darko]

Rather than trying to talk you out of calling my company dishonest and unscrupulous directly I will make you an offer: order one of these new products under pseudonym and send it to Amir for testing. Once you have done this give me all your info and I will fully reimburse you if you do not want to keep the unit. No shipping fee restocking, any of that. All you need to is put up the initial purchase.

Or if that isn't what you want I'll zoom call you. I will virtually take you in our warehouse grab a random unit of your choice off the shelf and test it in front of you live.

Your call. Let's put this to bed.

Thats an offer that should see your arm bitten off , brave stuff , luckily the gods saw fit to grace you with a spare

 

[Jimbob54]

When you sell arms to both sides it's best to keep them from finding out

They done gone pandered to us! And (I assume) are selling a schiit load.
Amir is having an impact on the market, I'm not sure this will end where he intended though.