Revel M55XC Outdoor Speaker Review

[bobbooo]

Bass below 100 Hz didn't change at all though, whereas it does the simulation.

Yeah the simulation is for 1 foot from a wall, whereas it sounds like Amir taped the cardboard flush to the back of the speaker (I think). That, the fact that cardboard has a different (presumably higher) coefficient of absorption and is much smaller than a real wall might explain the difference.

 

[BYRTT]

Bass below 100 Hz didn't change at all though, whereas it does the simulation.

Yeah the simulation is for 1 foot from a wall, whereas it sounds like Amir taped the cardboard flush to the back of the speaker (I think). That, the fact that cardboard has a different (presumably higher) coefficient of absorption and is much smaller than a real wall might explain the difference.

Yes simulation was 1x boundary infinite, Amir's test was more a baffle gain than a boundary gain, speed of sound divided 2 feet = gain will fade slowly out below 562Hz and also there will be diffraction interference, think Amir's exercise was to show the trend.

 

[BYRTT]

Here is another one when interpreting low end reach for M55XC verse M16/M105/M106, think low end reach helps improve for M55XC when they normalized each other and that is how we listen to them, what i mean is the higher the efficiency the higher curve is in the chart and that sometimes make low end slope fade out over at left Y axis and can visual look for the eye like response is hotter, also 25dB down low end slope of M55XC meet the other three and DC thump for second order sealed can sometime be sensed a better punch to lows than 4th order ventilated.

 

[patate91]

I must say I am a bit smiling when many people try immediately to interpret and even question the research results just because of one individual (even if he is experienced) listening non-blinded, reminds of scenes of "Life of Brian" where his followers try to interpret everything in the words of their messiah.
Even experienced Harman employees who did daily as their job loudspeaker comparisons failed ranking their own loudspeakers fairly when listening to them not blinded due to the cheap price and plastic housing http://seanolive.blogspot.com/2009/04/dishonesty-of-sighted-audio-product.html
By that I don't want to question the limitations of the current Olive loudspeaker score model, on contrary, but please on systematic blind tests.

I think people are reacting that much because Amir vhas influence on a lot of people. Because there's a science tag on the forum. Because Amir said that he can be bias free (or less) because of his training. Because those subjective impressions affect the credibility. Don't forget that readers are bias too.

 

[hangcheng]

a newbie question:
i have this speaker, i am thinking to pair either icepower125*2 DIY amp or SMSL da8s. i got the m55xc is 8ohm 60w. the da8s is 80Wx2(4Ω) / 40Wx2(8Ω). So...does this mean da8s cant drive m55xc well, right?

 

[aac]

Just out of curiosity I've tried to shelve my speaker resonse like this and listened to the track in the review.
It wasn't bad actually, better than I expected.
However I then tried playing some Lamb of God and it was BAD, when switching it on and off
Looks like it's just a matter of selecting a testing material to expose this shelving.

 

[Bhh]

However I then tried playing some Lamb of God and it was BAD

speaker’s fault?
Sorry, I couldn’t resist. JK

 

[echopraxia]

It's interesting that waterproof outdoor speakers seem to be under-reviewed in general, despite this being actually a really interesting and useful feature. These are often seen almost as an afterthought to audiophiles, but I think they deserve much more attention than they get.

I know how easy it is to get sidetracked into criticism in general, especially among many of us who are naturally obsessive / intellectually inquisitive in nature. So I think it's worth repeating a few things I've said before here:

1. I don't think most of the criticism and debate here is meant to be negative or hostile or anything like that, though I understand Amir's frustration from the constant attacks on the validity of his subjective listening impressions (sometimes belittling/mocking) whenever they don't align with the Olive preference score (which I would hope any scientist/engineer knows is not infallable, and clearly has room for improvement).

2. To balance out the incessantly revisited criticisms we see on every review like this, I want to make sure this is repeated as well: Thank you so much @amirm for doing these reviews! The objective measurements and subjective impressions together are creating an incredibly valuable database of a level of quality that simply doesn't exist anywhere in the audiphile world. These reviews are amazingly useful to not just those of us who post here; I bet for every single person who posts here, there must be thousands of passive readers getting immense value from these reviews.

 

[echopraxia]

And though a bit off-topic, to expand on my happiness in the diversity of speakers tested on this site (indoor, outdoor, large, small, expensive, cheap, active, passive), it would be really cool if ASR ever branches out even further to test waterproof speakers that are also battery powered and portable, like e.g. the JBL Boombox 2, which is even more interesting in terms of utility/versatility than mount-only waterproof speakers like these Revels.

So this thread now has me starting to wonder: How good does the sound quality get in the domain of waterproof and battery-powered portable outdoor speakers (like the JBL Boombox)? I'm coincidentally in the market for some nice outdoor speakers lately, but honestly when comparing something like the Revel M55XC to JBL Boombox 2 just in terms of sheer convenience, it's hard to justify permanently mounted outdoor speakers, due to all the inconvenience and cost associated with properly installing it with all the signal chain components and the careful tuning necessary to get it to sound really exceptional.

There's something very appealing about portable battery-powered waterproof speakers, and how versatile/handy it would be to just be able to carry around to wherever you need the music. It would be amazing if such a product exists that achieves decently good sound quality without having to go through all the expense/effort/hassle of permanently installing and tuning mounted outdoor speakers.

I just don't know how good the existing portable battery powered waterproof speakers get in terms of sound quality. I'm contemplating buying some of the JBL options here and keeping what sounds best. Would be interesting to see them measured too some day. Just a passing thought

 

[jhaider]

It's interesting that waterproof outdoor speakers seem to be under-reviewed in general, despite this being actually a really interesting and useful feature. These are often seen almost as an afterthought to audiophiles, but I think they deserve much more attention than they get.

That is something I have thought about too. The problem here is reviewing such speakers is much more difficult. Obviously there's the time issue. With normal speakers you can listen whenever you're home more or less. With outdoor speakers that's not the case, due to weather, yard work going on around you, neighbors outside, and so on.

Also outdoor speakers need to be mounted, and every brand mounts a little differently. Brackets have different mounting patterns, and nobody wants to drill new holes into their home for purposes of reviewing a speaker. Speaker wire terminations even vary! Many have Phoenix plugs that take bare wire (or crimped end sleeves) but others like these Revels have barrier strips that take crimped or soldered spade lugs or ring terminals.

1. I don't think most of the criticism and debate here is meant to be negative or hostile or anything like that, though I understand Amir's frustration from the constant attacks on the validity of his subjective listening impressions (sometimes belittling/mocking) whenever they don't align with the Olive preference score (which I would hope any scientist/engineer knows is not infallable, and clearly has room for improvement).

Comments on this review seems to be worse than others. I don't understand the vitriol at all. I look at the speaker and see incredible performance for the design application - look at the horizontal polar map and beam width graphs! - that translates well to height or maybe even side/rear in immersive home systems. Amir's subjective comments are exactly what I'd expect from the measurements, regardless of what a preference formula for freestanding speakers might say.

2. To balance out the incessantly revisited criticisms we see on every review like this, I want to make sure this is repeated as well: Thank you so much @amirm for doing these reviews! The objective measurements and subjective impressions together are creating an incredibly valuable database of a level of quality that simply doesn't exist anywhere in the audiphile world. These reviews are amazingly useful to not just those of us who post here; I bet for every single person who posts here, there must be thousands of passive readers getting immense value from these reviews.

Seconded!

 

[Bhh]

This is my current install of these and I plan to add 2 more (one in each quadrant). The space is still in construction so I’m not sure exactly how they will be installed when the ceiling is finished. I was listening to these again today and I do wish they had more bass and I bet the bigger brothers with 8” drivers would sound much better but I’ll probably just add a 12” sub somewhere in the ceiling before that is installed and be done with it and the price delta between these and the 8’s will pay for the drivers if I build the enclosure which I’ll have to do anyway to fit the enclosure volume I need to fit in a rafter bay.

If I get ambitious this week and I will drag out my umik, REW them and post the results. I also have an unused miniDSP around somewhere also.

Edit: After two beers and a whiskey, these speakers sound f’ing amazing! Perhaps Harmon has designed a proprietary response curve for outdoor speakers knowing they are generally accompanied by adult beverages and/or screaming children. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

 

[Billy Budapest]

I know you are trying to help but what you say is not remotely true. I have no idea if we have sold a single Revel M55XC. The line is being discontinued anyway. I have a wall between ASR and Madrona. In no case do I let one influence the other. I have given headless panther to a number of Harman products (see all the ARCAM AVR and Processor lines, Lyngdorf, etc.).

My frame of mind going into this review was, "well it has no bass, it is little so likely as i turn it up it is going to fall apart. If it doesn't at best I would give it "like it" panther." Then I play the music and I can't believe how clean, smooth the reproduction is. I did not feel to touch a single aspect of its performance with EQ correction.

As I walked over to take its picture, I thought again that maybe I should just use the "like it" panther and not invite grief. But that would be a lie. I was truly impressed with its performance bringing absolute fidelity to my listening pleasure.


The one thing you should not ask me to do is lie. That I listen to a speaker and it sounds horrible but I say it is great because the measurements are. Or vice versa. I can't have someone ask me, "but how did it sound" and I tell them it sounded great but I wrote that it was a horrible speaker.

So ultimately yes, what you say is true: subjective ratings are mine and mine alone. I am not going to take orders from anyone on the final rating I give to something. And I will stand behind them too. If you get this speaker and it doesn't sound good, I will be shocked. It will likely outperform many speakers if you don't need strong bass. It is that good!

Remember, like all Revel speakers, they have been tested in double blind to perform well. Trained listeners rated them as sounding excellent or they would not ship. So don't think I am an outlier in thinking this speaker performs, lest you not have any value for controlled testing at Harman either.

Taking all that into perspective, I get it now.

 

[echopraxia]

I don't understand the vitriol at all. I look at the speaker and see incredible performance for the design application - look at the horizontal polar map and beam width graphs! - that translates well to height or maybe even side/rear in immersive home systems. Amir's subjective comments are exactly what I'd expect from the measurements, regardless of what a preference formula for freestanding speakers might say.

I think I understand where it comes from and can sympathize. I think it's that most people who follow speaker science and measurements favor the canonical intepretation of CEA2034 plots, and are very uncomfortable accepting that a speaker with a "bad" on-axis response could actually sound exceptionally good subjectively -- because the science they learned says this isn't supposed to happen!

But science is not a static thing; it changes or at least is supposed to change as new evidence comes in. Sadly, I see extraordinary resistance to this notion. I understand why, I just think many people on science forums might be putting a little too much weight in CEA2034 interpretations for which there is an ever growing body of evidence suggesting that the picture they paint is incomplete.

Many of us (myself included) have started to correlate measurements to subjective preference in ways that are way more accurate/successful than the Olive score is. Whether this is just because we're learning our personal preference (which differs from the norm), or whether this indicates that the Olive score is wrong in big ways that still need corrected, I can't tell you for sure.

But I can say that I bought the Salon2's knowing full well that their spin (and therefore likely their preference score) would suggest that these speakers should sound far worse than my Genelecs (again, by the canonical interpretation of the measurements). But they don't -- and in many ways (but granted, not all!) they achieve the most pleasant and enjoyable listening experience (in my medium/large room) of any speaker I've owned!

Why would I do something so stupid as to buy an inferior measuring (canonically) speaker that costs so much, on the off chance that it may somehow sound better than the Olive score would suggest? And how is it possible that they actually did end up producing a more pleasant auditory experience for me, vs any other speaker I have (despite the implications from the CEA2034)? The answer is really quite simple: I saw normalized horizontal directivity plots for the Salon2, and they were extremely impressive in consistency and width. I know of nothing else that measures as well as them in this regard. And knowing that I like wide dispersion speakers subjectively, I concluded that there's a fairly good chance they will sound amazing. And they do.

I can't prove to the skeptics here that my way of evaluating measurements (giving more weight to horizontal normalized directivity plots than the CEA2034) would work better for everyone than the current Olive score. But I can attest that so far, this method has worked extremely well for me and has not yet failed me once.

 

[Trouble Maker]

Any image about the effect (on slope) of PIR if side wall reflections are taken out? How about ceiling? I think these situations might be a pretty normal application; speakers mounted on side of house with no side walls, with or without ceiling (porch or deck).

The application I am thinking of for myself is covered deck (or porch, whatever you want to call it) ceiling (slight upward slope) with no sidewalls. Speaker mounted up high on wall near ceiling pointed down at deck.

The other alternative is in ceiling and those would be at a fixed 10~15 degree angle in the sloped ceiling. Better aesthetically but probably spend same or less money for worse results; I don't really see spending (significantly more) for maybe as good results as these. My target image was in ceiling at $100~$200 each, but these for $420 if I can still find them or even $600 seem really good. We are not in an extreme weather environment and in ceiling should be fairly protected from elements so an indoor speaker may be an option there with the understanding that we may have to replace after some time.

 

[Chromatischism]

It's interesting that waterproof outdoor speakers seem to be under-reviewed in general, despite this being actually a really interesting and useful feature. These are often seen almost as an afterthought to audiophiles, but I think they deserve much more attention than they get.

This is about to change

 

[Bhh]

Any image about the effect (on slope) of PIR if side wall reflections are taken out? How about ceiling? I think these situations might be a pretty normal application; speakers mounted on side of house with no side walls, with or without ceiling (porch or deck).

The application I am thinking of for myself is covered deck (or porch, whatever you want to call it) ceiling (slight upward slope) with no sidewalls. Speaker mounted up high on wall near ceiling pointed down at deck.

The other alternative is in ceiling and those would be at a fixed 10~15 degree angle in the sloped ceiling. Better aesthetically but probably spend same or less money for worse results; I don't really see spending (significantly more) for maybe as good results as these. My target image was in ceiling at $100~$200 each, but these for $420 if I can still find them or even $600 seem really good. We are not in an extreme weather environment and in ceiling should be fairly protected from elements so an indoor speaker may be an option there with the understanding that we may have to replace after some time.

I considered in-wall speakers for my application as well as I like the clean modern look and they would be mounted at an angle like you describe. Based on on the positive reviews, I wanted to try a pair of Revels and none of their in-wall speakers are moisture resistant. Like yours, mine will be covered and I don't need “extreme weather” but we do have high humidity so I feel they should be at least “moisture-resistant” which is the same spec we are required to use light fixtures, ceiling fans, etc. in this space, which is the same spec you would also use in a bathroom. At least here, regular indoor speakers would be asking for problems IMHO.

 

[Trouble Maker]

By the way, that outdoor space looks really nice!
What kind of fixture is that you were working on, on the table?

 

[Bhh]

Thanks so much. Its a work in progress and difficult mobilizing contractors this year so I’m doing much of the electrical work myself (inspected of course). Those are the light fixtures I’m getting ready to install, WAC Precission Multiples.

https://www.lumens.com/precision-multiples-4-inch-led-1x3-housing-by-wac-lighting-WACP91253.html

 

[Andreas007]

People are surprised because a) they don't read my repeated explanations and b) don't understand the nature of the measurements.

How many times do I need to explain that the measurements are performed in a different scenario than usage and design criteria for this speaker? I really thought you all could mentally compensate for this but clearly not.

Then, please Amir, apply this criteria in the future for other speakers, too.
Anyway, I don‘t think this is the right way to go. With this argument you could justify almost every design sin. I can see a lot of golfing panthers coming...

 

[tomstoll]

How will you be using them? Main speakers, surrounds or atmos?

outdoors in my outdoor kitchen, under a roof overhang attached to the house as a replacement to my polks.