Uptone ISO Regen Review and Measurements

[Thomas savage]

Actually, we don't know what the LPS-1 does to the output of the system. It is all hypothesis that it fixes this and that. If someone has one and wants it measured, they should loan it to me.

At one of the audio shows a company that specializes in making after market power linear supplies told me that the LPS-1 is actually noisy as it switches banks and such. Would be interesting to instrument that and see if it is true.

Even if the LPS-1 did something here, it would just get us back to square one where this device does not measurably improve the analog output of the DAC.

This is the problem here, with all the mud thrown and excitement at amirs grounding practice and SMPS argument etc .. well it's all a distraction, fact remains no proof of any benefit from buying uptone product(s) . ( edit , a schiit DAC's shows objective benefit but question still remains of audibility but personally I'm not that fussed by that avenue)

It's lower common denominator arguments coming from elsewhere, they all avoid the real issue in favour of a egotistical smoke screen .

That's disappointing as all I wanted was some objective evidence this device did something positive in the way it's marketed.. I did actually want that as it would of given us a decent point to discuss.

I'm more than happy to offer anyone from uptone a free floor to present their evidence, evidence that counters the suggestion their regen products have marginal if any practical benefits.

I don't care if amir is wrong, I have no invested intrest here other than a fair exchange of evidence. If amir is wrong he will have to take it on the chin and suck it up.

So .......

 

[Jinjuku]

well it's all a distraction, fact remains no proof of any benefit from buying uptone product(s) .

Not entirely true as the Schiit Modi was a net improvement with the ISOR. Whether the objective measurement equals subjective increase in SQ is for bias controlled testing.

 

[Thomas savage]

Not entirely true as the Schiit Modi was a net improvement with the ISOR. Whether the objective measurement equals subjective increase in SQ is for bias controlled testing.

Thanks Iv put in a edit.. and sorry for my inaccuracy.

 

[Blumlein 88]

To be fair it does indicate it isolates from the USB SOURCE not anything else down stream.

Yes, that is the point of the chip they make so much noise about. Its purpose is to isolate what is on the two sides of the chip. They use capacitive galvanic isolation. Capable of isolating as much as 3000 vdc. It isn't about noise it is about harmful voltage that can come through the USB connection. Something instrumentation in industry might be in danger of facing. Not usually a worry about your PC sending that to your DAC unless it receives a lightning strike (watch out Sal and Ray).

 

[amirm]

A bit more data. Went to power up my main workstation and it no longer turns on . So here is the same tests as last time, i.e. Behringer UMC204HD with and without Iso Regen. The difference is that the file is now playing on my laptop that is also powering the Audio Precision. In other words, one less switching power supply in the system. Further, I run the test with the laptop plugged in, or running on batteries:

As you see, all the same problems remain. Disconnecting the power supply from laptop made no difference. The mains harmonics remain.

Now, who jinxed my workstation power supply? Was you Sal? Thomas? Or was it Superdad???

 

[RayDunzl]

Now, who jinxed my workstation power supply?

I like to refer to it as "the subtle layer of irony" that overlies and arbitrarily shakes up rationality from time to time.

Figure out what is ironic in the situation.

The power supply for testing power supplies failed, is my guess. You've been TSLI'd.

Again, most likely.

 

[Sal1950]

Or was it Superdad??

Well DUH, LOL

 

[amirm]

More data .

I added a 10 foot extension to the USB cable as to degrade USB bus performance. This is a super cheap, cable I bought from Amazon for $8/pair. It is very, very thin.

Here are the results with one extension cable:

Red is direct, yellow is with Uptone Iso Regen. As we see, other than the same mains induced components by Iso Regen, there is no difference.

I then added another extension cable with total length around 23 feet. Bad things happened then, with and without UpTone Iso Regen

As we see, noise level shot way up -- as much as 70 db (two upper curves). Red is Iso Regen and Yellow is without (changed from above for clarity and consistency).

I then zoomed into the curves with two extension cables:

Things get interesting here. UpTone says that re-generating USB signal is a good thing. In this borderline case, this regeneration did nothing to make the connection more reliable. So strike 1 against Iso Regen.

Furthermore, the noise profile of Iso Regen (in red) is worse. We see higher level and more jumping up and down with Iso Regen than without (in yellow).

So I figured I take a listen by playing a Fiona Apple track. With Iso Regen, there is high-frequency crackle and ticks much like a very dirty LP. The piano is warbling too. In short, it is pretty unlistenable.

Without Iso Regen, the noise is faint and in the background. There is no warbling and the distortions are just a minor distraction way in the background.

The subjective difference then is quite a bit larger than objective measurements in favor of not using Iso Regen.

Clearly then, "cleaning up the USB" signal did considerable harm here. It shows up objectively in measurements and far worse in subjective listening. There are reasons for this which I will explain but for now, I encourage anyone with an Iso Regen (or the original Regen) to give this listening test a try.

Here are the cables I bought: https://smile.amazon.com/gp/product/B00N9HRVH6/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o02_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

 

[amirm]

How about even more data???

Folks on CA suggested using isolated power for the Iso Regen at different frequency so that we can see if the mains current leakage is coming from it. So I thought I try it since I have a B&K 9801 which is a lab programmable AC generator. Here is the Iso Regen MeanWell power supply being powered from it:

As you see, I have set it to 70 Hz so that we can distinguish its contributions from that mains powering my laptop and Audio Precision Analyzer. Here is the outcome:

The faint yellow is the Behringer DAC by itself again. As we see, it is pretty quiet.

The spikes in red are for Iso Regen being powered by mains outlet in the wall (i.e. 60 Hz).

The green is while it is powered by the B&K independent power source at 70 Hz. As we see, the same problem remains now at 70 Hz, confirming the AC current leakage is from the Iso Regen power supply. It is shifted to the right by 10 hz as it should be.

Summary
The UpTone Iso Regen AC switching power supply is leaking current causing increased mains related noise into the output of the DAC. In contrast, the switchmode power supply neither in my desktop workstation, nor my laptop contribute as such.

 

[Thomas savage]

The only defence that seems to remain is ...,

"A great many DACs benefit--and not just the cheap ones. All you need to do is look at the scores of reports in the USB REGEN and ISO REGEN Listening Impressions thread. People report great success with DACs in the $5,000-$50,000 range."

That's what alex from uptone concludes.. no matter what tests we do you can't get passed all the faulty listening impressions so the tests we do must be wrong or we test the wrong thing etc...

Absolutely no evidence has been presented by uptone, other than that sketchy statement above .

 

[pinkupanda]

Thanks Amir for all the tests - that was some eye opener.

The entire CA community is rigged with Uptone fanboys, no doubt. Sometimes the noise injected by these usb decraprifiers are fasely deemed to increase the resolution of the overall system. Secondly most of today's streamers, like microRendu, has USB2.0 chip and ISO-R has USB3.0 - USB3.0 chip sounds different than USB2.0. It makes it appear the ISO-R sounds better (with the help of all CA community fanboys) whereas its basically changing the character of sound which most take it for the better due to placebo or whatever reasons.

 

[RayDunzl]

Secondly most of today's streamers, like microRendu, has USB2.0 chip and ISO-R has USB3.0 - USB3.0 chip sounds different than USB2.0

???

 

[Blumlein 88]

Okay, so now Amir has no credibility measuring or listening. He came to all the wrong conclusions.

 

[Blumlein 88]

A question here Amir about the cable extensions as I think it will come up. Was the Regen positioned last in line or first in line as the signal leaves the PC headed for the DAC. I am assuming last in line, is that right?

 

[pinkupanda]

???

i meant the USB controller chip.

 

[RayDunzl]

Secondly most of today's streamers, like microRendu, has USB2.0 chip and ISO-R has USB3.0 - USB3.0 chip sounds different than USB2.0

???

i meant the USB controller chip.

Sounds different "how" ?

 

[amirm]

A question here Amir about the cable extensions as I think it will come up. Was the Regen positioned last in line or first in line as the signal leaves the PC headed for the DAC. I am assuming last in line, is that right?

Extensions connected to pc and then to iso regen. So yes.

 

[pinkupanda]

don't know - they just do maybe its measurable, maybe not. Just like two different DAC chips sounds different when feed the same signal.

 

[March Audio]

Okay, so now Amir has no credibility measuring or listening. He came to all the wrong conclusions.

Its interesting, the only measurable differences you can find in the DAC outputs have been detrimental to its performance with the Regen in circuit. Havent the Uptone fan boys twigged whats happening yet? That if they are hearing differences (highly doubtful), they are mistakenly identifying degradation as improvement. Hohoho.

 

[Blumlein 88]

Its interesting, the only measurable differences you can find in the DAC outputs have been detrimental to its performance with the Regen in circuit. Havent the Uptone fan boys twigged whats happening yet? That if they are hearing differences (highly doubtful), they are mistakenly identifying degradation as improvement. Hohoho.

Au contraire, you sir are forgetting the unmeasurable part which is also apparently among the most audible effects.

Besides it did help one DAC.